While viewing my Twitter stream, I encountered a tweet from an associate that included an expletive. We're talking the F-bomb.
I've heard this person speak before and I was reminded of how often he cursed in a keynote before thousands of people. While I have great respect for this indivdual and what he has accomplished, I couldn't help but wonder if he knew how much of his audience he was alienating.
I put out a tweet asking others what they thought. The tweet also posted to my Facebook profile.
Here's what I asked...
I knew I would receive replies, but I was surprised when dozens of people chimed in with their opinions.
When the question appeared on Facebook, a great debate ensued...
There are some pretty strong opinions there!
Now please note that I did not call anyone out by name. Several people who responded to my question DID mention names.
I'm not here to point fingers, but I will give my personal opinion.
First of all, I'm not offended by the language. I used to curse like crazy. The F-bomb was a natural part of my language. I thought Eddie Murphy was just hilarious when he cursed.
But as I grew as a person my desire to use profanity faded. For me, it just didn't fit who I was.
With that said, you can go ahead and curse all you want. Curse AT me and of course I'll be offended. Curse at my wife or in the presence of children and I'll call you out on it.
But if you want to string together profanities from the stage, it's your call.
There are enough people who ARE offended by profanity that I believe it demonstrates one of two attitudes coming from the speaker.
1) They are ignorant as to how their cursing affects some people. They just aren't aware that they are offending others with their langauge. I know I wasn't aware years ago when I used profanity. The question is, what do you do once you ARE aware that you are offending a segment of your audience?
2) They have a disrespect for their audience. If the speaker IS aware that a segment of the audience will be offended and they do it anyhow, they are deliberately choosing to be disrespectful of their audience.
(Interjecting one note here... if your audience is a bunch of punk rockers who talk like this all the time you aren't going to offend them. I am talking about your average business audience, so don't go getting all snarky on me.)
Now I'm not talking about the ocassional "hell" or "damn". You could even make the case that in a certain context, one of the biggies (Carlin's seven words you can't say on TV) could be used effectively.
What I am talking about are those who let sh*t and f*ck stream from their mouths without prejudice. It's like there is no filter in place and the brain tells the mouth to run free with disregard for how it makes others feel. That's disrespectful.
If you say, "Well that's just who I am", I say fine. Who you are is either ignorant of how your words affect others or you are a disrespectful individual. Why should I listen to what you have to say about the real subject matter?
And that's really the crux of the matter. If you are disrespectful of your audience, the impact of your message is going to be diminished.
Is your message important? Is it worth your time to take the stage and communicate it clearly and effectively so your audience will truly benefit?
As a professional speaker, the outcome is the most important thing to me. I want to be sure that people have heard me clearly and that the central message of my presentation becomes their greatest takeaway.
I don't want them to question my credibility. I guarantee that is what happens when you don't control your tongue from the platform.
What are your thoughts? If the responses here are anything like what I have seen on Twitter and Facebook, this could get very interesting!
Just be nice please. I will not post comments from people who curse at me just to make a point. So don't waste your time.
I think for the most part this should be avoided, at least with the top 3 swear words.
However nothing is absolute. Frank Kern has been cussing since I started to follow him a few years back. He can get away with it because he has built himself as a marketer on the fringe.
If you started to drop the F-bomb every few sentences then it would be different.
I don't really take offence to people swearing.
Joel,
For some speakers, it's part of their persona, for others, they may swear for emphasis to a particular point. As an audience member though, I'm always a bit taken aback by swear words. It's as if they forgot that they owe the audience a bit of respect. Sure, some of the folks in your network noted a few big speakers that swear and seem no worse for it. Maybe it's because we tolerate the language for a bigger message, I'm not sure? Or is it that as a culture, we dont' want to be uncool and offended by swearing, who wants to be considered square in today's all accepting culture? Also, interesting in the disucssion: I didn't see a single woman mentioned who swears and is a big success (comediennes excluded) as a speaker.
I'll finish my two cents here: I'm a frequent public speaker. For me, the goal is to leave my audience with things to think about, or to think in new ways - and not about the specific words I used.
Interesting post Joel. Thanks for bringing the conversation.
To any speakers out there: Go ahead, swear all you want. I can bear your swearing IF there's something substantial in the first 3 mins of your speech that tickles my fancy. The content's more important, IMHO.
You won't have good grades in the 'courtesy' or 'impression' sections though.
This is definitely an interesting discussion.
My thoughts are this...
Swearing every now and then doesn't really bother me.
But if it's excessive (and it's in every other sentence) then I think it is disrespectful and just shows a lack of creativity.
With that said, I've "heard" that one of the reasons certain speakers drop the "F-bomb" throughout their presentation is NOT because it's part of their every day vocabulary but because it's used as a "speaking technique".
The "F-bomb" immediately grabs everyone's attention.
And from what I've been told, certain people use it to wake their audience up and keep them focused on their message.
I'm certainly not saying this makes it right, I'm just saying that's what I've "heard" as far as the reason some speakers do swear.
Gratuitous use of vulgarity for effect is offensive, in my opinion, and perhaps betrays a lack of confidence in whether you or your content are sufficiently compelling without the theatrics. Some earthly language that is context-appropriate may be fine, but speakers should imagine members of the audience suddenly having earmuffs on as soon as they let loose some swearing for swearing's sake - because that's what's happening. It's especially disrespectful to use God or Jesus or other religious references as curses, because that heightens the offense to some - maybe many - in the audience. Including me.
Given that profanity may offend some audience members, and speakers want their messages (and themselves) to be respected, I think in general it is safer to not swear during presentations. But it's not just an issue of manners. It is also about clarity in communicaton.
Both psychologist Steven Pinker and actor Stephen Fry have made valid points about the value of swearing in communication. Swearing does have it's place. The taboo nature of swearing also gives such words power. If they are only used for special occasions (such as dropping a hammer on one's toe) then they stand out. In this way they act like verbal exclamation marks showing that something is particular irksome, painful, frustrating, or what have you.
But when they become part of our routine vocabulary, they lose that power. They don't stand out, and if they don't stand out then they aren't performing their natural function...and would be better left unsaid.
Most presentations don't require the verbal drama that swear words are meant to convey. So I don't see them being useful elements in a speaker's vocabulary unless they can truly be used to emphasize a particular point, and jolt the audience into paying attention in a way that other words could not.
As with any vocabulary choices I think we need to choose our words with care and use those that most clearly express whatever it is we are trying to convey. If the situation truly calls for such expressive terms then certainly one should use them, but in most cases it's probably not necessary.
Joel, excellent question, and I'm glad you brought it up. There is absolutely no need for a speaker to use vulgarity such as you described, and might I add, no reason for people to "communicate" via e-mail in the same way.
Often, I will receive an e-mail with what I believe is a vulgar word either in the subject line or the e-mail body, and while I know it's designed that way to get me to open it, I can't hit the delete key fast enough even if the product might seem like a decent product.
Like you, I don't understand why they want to alienate some of their listeners/readers.
I'll take it a step further since I'm on the soapbox to let you know the same applies to movies for me. Just will not/cannot go to a movie that has repeated cursing throughout, and my threshold of staying is extremely low. Often wonder why producers feel the need to take a perfectly good story line, and throw a few swear words in. Just don't get it.
Thanks again,
Norm
If a speaker thinks the only way he can hold my attention is to swear, he doesn't have a lot to say. I listen to learn - and I know all those words so they have no value.
My opinion of swearing is that people do it when they don't have the vocabulary to say something else - dropping a hammer on your toe is exempt. There really isn't much else to say in that case! :)
Cathy
As a speaker you're privileged to be in a responsible position. You're leading people by example. A lot of people will look up to you (whether you like it or not and whether you deserve it or not). Please respect that position of authority and treat people with some humility.
As a speaker from stage myself I do my very best to promote myself and my business in a most professional manner.
When I speak at someones event I feel it is my obligation to help present myself the best I can. it not only reflects who I am it reflects on the event and the one putting on the event.
But is it any different than having marketers professing to be Christian and when they are on twitter or other social sites or sending out emails to their lists you would never know the difference.
We try to say it is OK because that is who I am and people need to just accept me for who I am. I am going to be real..
Respect the people you market to and they will return the respect.
Just my opinion!
With over 1 million words in the English language that people could use to express themselves, it seems rather juvenille for someone to resort to using the slanguage they used as a teen. Grow up people! It does not make you COOL it makes you appear retarded that you can't learn a few words to shock and awe your audience with your intellect.
Bad habits are hard to break, but with thought they can change.
Diana
The Old FuddyDuddy
Some people do this consciously and deliberately to tigger such controversy and discussions. The ones who do it will typically be the 'Johnny come lately's who are looking for a way to create a strong positioning for themselves; when their positioning is not very strong in terms of the subject expertise, they may additionally use such tricks.
I hope your raising this issue is truly because of your revulsion to this tactic. But,... who knows, you and your posting may be part of the trick, not to let the positioning be lost on the gullible public (like us), or may be you're merely trying to cash in on a 'controversy opp'. I'm just conjecturing, not concluding or passing a value judgment.
When success is measured by the results, perhaps all is fair in marketing!
As I think about the subject, I find I want to say the swearing and cussing bothers me. But deeper reflection shows me that the language is a reflection of the character of the person, and _that's_ what bothers me. I would be just as likely to disregard the speaker even if he wasn't swearing because that character will be reflected in other ways.
Case in point. I lost more respect for Frank once I connected him with (or more accurately he connected himself with) mass mind control than I did from anything specific word he said. I'll go into why on my own blog sometime.
And while we are talking about speech. It is just as important that we accurately reflect truth. So many speakers, preachers even, think it is OK to get the point across but neglect the accuracy with which they communicate the point.
So, character and accuracy is more important than specific words used.
Regarding what Stu said, I've heard that same thing. IMHO, though, if you have to curse to get my attention or wake me up, you're too boring. What happened to turning down the a/c to keep the audience awake? Has creativity left the building?
I feel that the issue of cursing is not a matter of right or wrong, but rather, it's a matter of knowing when it's appropriate and when it's not. If you're in a meeting within your own company, and your the big boss and your employees are used to you cussing when you're passionate about an issue and the cussing shows passion, even if you record the meetings and post them in a private members' area and they've been conditioned to expect the cussing, than it's ok, case in point, Robert Kiyosaki, he posts a weekly meeting with his staff to the Rich Dad Insiders and when he gets passionate about an issue, he can sometimes drop f-bombs, but as far as I know, his lanuage only gets that colorful in that meeting. Does it offend me? Sometimes it gives me a start, but for me, it grabs my attention and it makes the point he's trying to drive across more memorable, but that's just me, I understand that most people don't like it, so I never use that kind of language publicly and even when I'm in my room by myself, I try to use it as sparingly as possible b/c imo, those words are reserved for expressing strong emotion that wouldn't otherwise be conveyed if not for the use of those certain words.
So in a nutshell, there's a time when those words are appropriate and a time when it's totally uncalled for, it all depends on the crowd you're talking to and whether or not they've been conditioned to expect it. The vast majority of the time, an exclamation point is fine in print or online when you want to show emotion, but those few times when an exclamation point doesn't do your emotions justice, it's ok to use colorful language, but be very careful to choose a word that expresses the intensity of your emotion to the tee. In other words, an occasional f-bomb is ok as long as you're really that passionate about something and you have a very good point to make in the process, otherwise it's pointless venting which isn't very professional
Individuals who use foul language are intellectually void of any talking points. I immediately turn that person off. That person has no communication skills and no longer effective.
Using profanity was unprofessional, offensive and presents the speaker as lacking class.
Let's look at the success of others as a representation for the younger generation to emulate. Our younger generation needs to be taught how to conduct themselves accordingly in certain venues. In today's society we often make excuses as opposed to the creating the resolution.
If the venue were a comedy club, I could accept the profanity, but not in a professional setting.
Whether its wrong depends very much on who is listening. Its all about having consideration for how this might upset the listener (or, in public, even the eavesdropper/observer).
I had one lady 'unfriend' me and accuse me of abuse, with multiple exclamation marks, because I wrote 'bl**dy hell' (properly spelled) on my own wall on facebook.
Reaction to colourful language is very much down to the individual. Really the job of a skilled communicator is to respect and work with the understanding of the listener. Its an enviable skill.
Swearing isn't wrong, but it helps to know exactly who you are speaking to and how they would receive it. In public and especially in public print (irreversible) you also have to know how they would handle being associated with it long term, which relies on their understanding of who might come along to watch or judge, and can result in a completely different response to the one you'd anticipated.
Even in private its never just about what you mean, its about what you are perceived to mean, and about selecting your words to properly reach an understanding. That's what communication is; transplanting a mood or an understanding intact.
Someone who makes a profession of relating to others should possibly have a handle on that. Or maybe two twitter IDs so they can undo the work suit once in a while. I wish I had two facebooks.
I believe that if a person has to resort to using swear words in order to get their message across they are letting themselves down and display a degree of ignorance coupled with a lack of respect for their audience.
A younger person addressing an audience of their peers is likely to swear in an attempt to gain credibility.
I cannot recall any great public speakers or politicians using profanities as this would be totally unacceptable and alienate the respect they command for their position of authority.
Refreshing just to see people hashing out the subject matter. Too often I think people of influence do it on tv or in the movies, and then it becomes "acceptable" public practice or "normal" behavior... while those who disapprove remain silent. In my lifetime, profanity in public has gone from unacceptable to common. Same thing is true with lack of manners, if you don't believe me then try holding the door open for people behind you and see how many even bother to say "thank you". It's sad, I think, to see a society lose the "old fashioned" values. Somehow, that is not "progress" to me. We should all realize, our words have consequences (even more so for professional speakers in front of an audience). Bottom line: I don't think its' Ok. So, I guess I'm not "cool" or "real".
Greetings Joel,
Sadly, sometimes profanity is the only form of communication that some individuals understand.
However, it is inappropriate in a professional speaking setting pertaining to business as these meetings tend to be Welcome All settings (i.e. Parents bringing their children, and so forth).
Thusly, I would not want children exposed to profanity in such settings, as it conveys the message that such usage is acceptable when interacting with large groups of people.
It's just a matter of the professional speaker treating others the way they themselves wish to be treated, which is with respect.
Warmest Regards,
FJT
Low class and arrogant. Unprofessional and nauseating
Even after 20 years in the U.S. Navy... I put up with those who use it ONLY IF the rest of what they have to say is valuable enough to keep me there listening. Otherwise... I'm out of there. I find that those who drop the F-Bomb lose their following faster than those who do not.
An interesting subject indeed!
Me being an old codger, I've heard it all but...
For the life of me I can't get past a female using vulgarity.
Call it a double standard if you will but I don't believe there ever
is an appropriate time or place for a female to use what I would term stronger words.
I expect the occasional 'hell' or 'damn' but take it further and I'm out of there.
Great discussion, Joel, glad you started it.
Profanity is vulgar, offensive and unnecessary, therefore a speaker who uses it takes a serious risk of losing his audience.
An occasional hell or damn isn't so bad, but anything beyond that is inappropriate in civil discourse.
Using profanity is a cheap shot that reveals the speaker's limited vocabulary, difficulty in framing thoughts, and perhaps, lack of confidence.
An audience should be left with thoughts of ideas and concepts without mental baggage from the gutter.
I agree that it is not professional. If it was an occasional hell or damn, (like once in the whole talk) I think it may be o.k. My mother used to say that profanity was for people with too small of a vocabulary to say it any other way. I agree. Now more than ever with all the abbreviated words for text-ing etc.... learn to speak eloquently.
The use of profanity in any form is completely unnecessary and demonstrates that the speaker is lacking in class, good manners, and vocabulary. That said, I do occasionally use "hell" or "damn" in a sentence for emphasis, but my dad used those words frequently in conversation -- a habit I've been cutting way down on.
Why not show your vocabulary? E.g., instead of the usual two-letter acronym, I like using "barnyard solid waste of the male bovine variety". It leaves the vocabulary-deficient listener wondering what you just said, amuses others at your escape from the menial, and keeps the salt out of your speech.
I got rid of TV, and religiously avoided Comedy Central when I had satellite because I think any "comedian" who has to result to below-the-belt humor to get a laugh is a moron and definitely not worth listening to.
I have a neighbor whose offices are less than 300 feet from where I sit, who has an Ipod app (whatever that is -- I don't use an Ipod and it strikes me as something totally unnecessary for that market to function) that produces a sound similar to what one encounters sometimes when folks avail themselves of a porcelain fixture commonly found in restrooms. If I recall correctly, it's commonly called "flatulence" among those of reasonably sufficient vocabulary. I rarely find any need to talk about it.
Apparently some find it "funny". I don't.
And I know of a local business where the manager banned that individuals' emails and promotions and any conversations about him from their offices because she didn't like the office talk about the app.
That's one way to "grow" your list, eh?
Being rude and/or crude can have a negative effect on your bottom line.
If you adopt as your own personal policy that profanity, crude speech,
and vulgarities have no place in your vocabulary, your life, and your
business, you'll never go wrong.
If you are a person who claims to be of religious inclination, ask yourself if your Creator would speak that way, or if you'd speak in His presence that way and would He appreciate it.
Clean speech is a sign of a clean mind, a clean character, and a wholesome respect for others. It also enhances others' perception of your honesty and integrity -- an important factor in today's cynical marketplaces.
It's just plain good manners.
Good manners and respect for others will make them a lot more inclined to do business with you. Any successful, competent salesman will tell you the same.
And clean language is an important part of "doing good stuff".
So when you go out to do good stuff, make sure cleaning up your mouth is part of it...
Imagine what a world free of the garbage lyrics to rap "music" ... with no need to even discuss whether "the f word" should be allowed on radio or television ... where people spoke clean language all the time ... where potty-mouth low-lifes like Howard Stern, sotty Ron White, and the creeps crawling the halls of Capitol Hill in DC were unable to get any traction in the public...
Because they couldn't compete against real comedy and entertainment of the quality delivered by Jack Benny, Red Skelton, Desi Arnaz and Lucille Ball (or their current-generation equivalents) crowded them out of the market.
Todays empty-headed comic morons mistake their "rights" of free expression.
Liberty is not the power to do as you please. True liberty is the right to do what is right. You never have a right to do what is wrong.
Vulgar language plants seeds in the minds of those who hear you. It's a lot like carrying a big bag of rotten, stinking, kitchen/houehold garbage into their living room and dumping on their carpet, then leaving them to clean up the mess.
Bottom line?: Why is this conversation even warranted?
It's evidence of a sick, uncivil, and uncivilized society where people hold others in contempt, and think themselves above reproach.
But the day will come after they leave this mortal existence when they will stand before their Creator and be judged out of the record books for every thought, every act, and every deed ... having a perfect recollection of every thought that ever flowed through their cranium ... every illicit glance at another person or photograph ... and every fraud they ever committed against anyone in their life.
And that would be a good time to have a clean record.
Think about it. Be true to thyself, *then* go do good stuff.
Clarke
I see no place in public speaking for swear words. They make me question the credibility of the whole presentation and all other material produced by that speaker.
Personally, I am offended by people swearing in any environment, and will not have people who swear frequently in my circle of friends. I believe it shows a lack of intelligence, communication capability, maturity, and self control. I count amongst my friends some of the most successful people in the world, and they are not foul-mouthed.
But quite apart from my taking offense, it distracts and detracts from the message and authority of the speaker. How many people would be offended if you do *not* swear in a speech? Nobody. How many people are offended if you *do* swear? I think the answer is in the replies you have received. Do people really care? Well yes; hence the number of replies.
Some people have mentioned specific speakers, and for my part I have not bought any of Frank Kern's products precisely because of his foul mouth. There are many other gurus out there in the same market who keep it clean - I particularly like the approach of StomperNet. I have done the entirety of Anthony Robbins' mastery university, and there was only one event where he was swearing a lot (Date with destiny), and that really detracted from the impact of that session. I have also done the Chris Howard fast track, and the language was pretty clean throughout, and it was an excellent course that I would highly recommend - best public speaking training I have ever attended, as well as powerful life success and wealth building skills at least as good as Anthony Robbins, if not better.
Let's take two other analogies: dating and interviewing for employees. I am currently single, and frequently receive emails or other communication from women who see my profile online. Also I'm always advertising for staff, and although I get most of them vetted before they get to my inbox these days, I used to go through them individually. If their emails are full of spelling mistakes, they won't even get a look in - even if I am looking for something like a programmer role in a computer software company where they will be in the back room, they still need to have those basic communication skills (also they will occasionally be required to do customer support which requires good communication skills). In the case of potential girlfriends, I want someone with whom I can communicate intelligently, and they have instantly removed themselves from the list of potential matches if they can't spell and write clearly.
In all cases where I have found language skills to be lax (in the basics of spelling and grammar, as well as the use of swear words), it has shown up that they are lax in other areas of their lives and work. I think it's great to be able to weed out the unsuitable ones quickly. My time is valuable, and I don't want to waste half an hour meeting a girl for a cuppa, or interviewing a candidate for a job, if I can tell the likelihood of their success from just reading a couple of paragraphs of what they have written.
My success has been to a large extent a result of the people I choose to associate myself with. Clean language and effective communication are factors in this choice.
Joel, it really shouldn't surprise me how much people defend such behavior. It clearly shows the downward spiral our society is on. I used to wallow in the mud. So I know what it is like. As professionals we should always strive for excellence and lift people up. Not disrespect. I was surprised by the response you got from your question.
Thanks for all you do Joel and for the example you are setting.
Sandy
There are always enough good words to express ones hate, frustation, etc. So its better to increase your vocabulary.
Joel,
It comes down to respecting your audience. If someone has paid a speaker to share knowledge with them, leave out the profanity. I heard that speakers need to see through the eyes of their audience. If this is the case, then what does an audience think of a speaker cussing?
We 'say' things with the tone of words, not just with the words themselves. I work in a college and pull students up who repeatedly use this kind of language when they know I'm present (I'm not so bothered when they're talking to their close friends like this not realising others are in earshot).
Speakers use swearing to stimulate a stronger emotional response in listeners (the source of Tourett's Syndrome - not sure about the spelling there - is located in the emotional brain) and to 'beef up' the alleged importance of an issue - but its use has the opposite affect. The very fact swearing is being used suggests in reality the speaker is struggling to engage the audience. Teenagers use it because of low self-esteem.
Successful adults have no such excuse. They're doing it because they're arrogant and lack respect for their audience. It's the same behaviour used by a 3 year old when they discover the extra and urgent attention you get when you walk into a room of adults and use the F word.
It ain't good attention, though, is it? The magic soon wears off when mum hears you.
'I respect no-one within earshot' - that's what the F-word says.
I think the swearing gets in the way of the message. My brain gets stuck on the swearing and the impact of that - I have to work around the swearing to hear the message. I don't understand why a speaker would want to distract any part of their audience from the message they are delivering by swearing. They probably do it for 2 reasons: 1. IGNORANCE - they don't know it's having a negative impact on part of the audience and instead think they are punctuating a point 2. Being SELF-INDULGENT.
Therefore, I would also be thinking do I trust a person who is ignorant to the existence of their impact or doesn't care about it and who is self indulgent? They better have a very useful and strong message, and then I might go cautiously forward. Without swearing: more focused listening, trust earned more quickly, less hesitation...
I'm not perfect but when I bought into a certain individuals program it came with a lot of profanity in the videos. I was surprised but what stopped me from ever buying from this individual again is I'm training my teenager to work for me and eventually for himself. I have my son watch different training videos series, it became really clear I couldn't give him the ones with all the profanity as that's not the example a teenager needs to see and hear.
The material was good but there are sources of similar programs that don't contain the profanity and that's where I'll spend my money.
Great Questions, I was having just this discussion that other day! Not just the F-bomb but any iteration of it as well.
I personally feel if I had to resort to that kind of language to grab the attention of my audience, whether it was on the stage, twitter, my blogs etc. than I am NOT doing my job as a communicator.
As many people have indicated already the lack of professionalism and personal integrity is wide spread these days.
I am happy to see so many people that feel they can be authentic and communicate without the need to use such language.
Lori
Seminars are for the most part... boring! It's refreshing to see someone who is comfortable enough with themselves to speak how ever they feel...
I want to learn from an innovator.. not someone who is tip toeing around trying to win approval from ever tom, dick and harry.
Let it Rip Boys... Speak Your Mind & Be Remembered As Someone Who Stood For Something
- Aaron Cross
Swearing in a public setting for attention, in my opinion, is a sign of a lack of vocabulary intellect. I support other commenters who agree that it shows a lack of respect for the audience.
It is true that a speaker can reach a larger audience when cuss words are not littered like garbage throughout.
I think a speaker should be sensitive to the members of their audience. While profanity may be fine while sitting in your living room or among close friends, I think it comes across as crass and inappropriate in a professional setting. In other words, the setting matters. BTW, to people who think profanity is "necessary" to make certain points ... that's laziness, get a bigger vocabulary.
I think anybody who curses for emphasis, to look cool, or to show they are more powerful (hence more important) than their audience is a fool.
What is worse is people who fawn and apologize for these jerks because they have valuable information or "there are bigger issues in the world" are missing the point.
People like that have no respect for their paying audience and you can bet they have no respect for the people who aren't opening their wallets for their products.
How many of the people responding to your question Joel can say Frank Kern, Tony Robbins, or Gary V. is following them on Twitter, Facebook or anywhere else. It's the adoring masses looking upwards, not the other way around. They are just an entry in their autoresponder. Nothing more.
Maybe people are starving and living on the street because big shots with power and ability to change the world don't give a sh** (put in your favorite colorful guru curse here) and the rest of the world can go to h**l.
It seems to me gurus are more concerned about their big product launches and getting big speaker fees. Sure they give out value, but only because it is good marketing sense.
BTW, Tony Robbins didn't start cursing like a truck driver until he started hanging out with the IM guru crowd. I lost my respect for the man and haven't bought anything from him since.
Joel, like yourself, I am a writer and professional speaker, albeit in a very different field than yourself. I simply cannot see using vulgarity in print, or when I'm in front of an audience. These people have given us their time and attention in the belief that there is something they can learn from us, or to be entertained, or both - and cursing doesn't advance the first of those and only occasionally the second.
I always think of the late comedian, Red Skelton, when I think of this aspect of our professional lives. Red, whom I interviewed years ago, could have you in stitches without saying a word, much less use vulgarity. That's talent - much like the apocryphal musician who could create a symphony out of a single note. And when he spoke - it was wonderful.
Cursing simply doesn't make the cut in my book.
I've learned something here today that will improve my career - and that has resulted in this, my first post to you. Thank you Joel.
In a professional setting I feel that any form of vulgarity is totally uncalled for.
Don't get me wrong, as an ex-services member I can cuss with the best of them, in the right setting.
I have done many, many public presentations through the years and only ever once made the mistake of accidentally letting slip a swear word.
99% of the audience weren't fazed in the slightest, but I had one young lady come up to me after the presentation and make a complaint about my choice of language.
Never again will I cuss if I don't know who my audience is, and that even applies in public places when I don't know who might overhear me.
I feel it's just simple respect for other people to moderate your language.
Good post Joel.
Regards
Phil
I think when you enter a public arena you need to show respect for your intended audience. Your language needs to fit the situation. While you may use off-color words in your everyday encounters, you need to be aware of offending others when you speak publicly.
If you were standing in front of a judge facing serious charges, I believe you would use the best language possible. In private convesations, it is acceptable to use any language you wish, however when you speak publicly you need to clean up your act. IMO that includes your websies, blogs, twitter, wherever.
albert grande
It is a sad commentary on our society when the defense of profane laguage is considered to be "cool", If we truly believe it does'nt matter how we talk to each other in public then it really does'nt matter how our children talk to their parents or their grandparents. If it matters not how we talk to each other, It matters not how we treat others in any other
capacity. If you feel you have the right to talk to me in profane terms it is a "right" you have "taken" without my permission, it certainly is
not a "right" that has been earned. If we really take an honest look at
it we will see it is a hateful and disrespectful attitude which is
way too prevalent today, And that is exactly why my property has lost so much of it's value in recent times, The general feeling that Bankers don't need to be Honest when we sign for a mortgage is the same attitude that
the salesman has when we buy the car that may not stop when it needs to
or that may run away with my wife at the wheel with that lady who I never met that was crossing the street with her children in front of her or that cop who sells the dope he took away from the dealer he caught and arrested the other day, And that attitude is why shoud I have any respect for you?
Who do you think you are anyway? I'm just doing my own thing, tough s**t if don't like it...Well I don't like it, the sad truth is I can't do much about it accept make sure it doesn't happen in my house, and make sure it
isn't allowed for anyone to talk that way or act that way around me or
my family because I demand a little respect, THAT'S RIGHT I DEMAND IT
I CALL IT UNACCEPTABLE BEHAVIOR AND UNTIL I SEE A LOT LESS OF IT I FOR ONE WILL NOT BE HAPPY. I was asked for an opinion THAT'S MINE....Bob
All very interesting comments. Does not bother me. I listen to learn. Who I am to determine whether the speaker should swear or not? Your choice to listen, not your choice to tell them what to say. Opening your mind to other people talking means listening to what they say and how they say it. Whether you like it or not is not the issue - you chose to listen.
And I cannot believe that words like sh*t are classified in the same breath as f words and others. Likewise, hell is not even a swear word in my book, which probably means people need to understand what defines a swear word, since much of this is about people's own classification - and that will differ between everyone. Historical and modern classification as these words in different categories.
Remember, the first person to invent swearing was not the first person to swear BUT the first person to take offence. A major difference.
Great question, Joel!
Speakers are supposed to be effective communicators. Though shocking to some there are those of us who do not use profanity. However, I understand everyone doesn't have this conviction. I am not automatically offended when a speaker curses, but initially, it does distract me from the message. I'm fair and willing to keep plugged in to the overall message. However, ff the speaker appears to have NO filter and NO respect for the people in their audience who may not think like they do, at that point their message becomes ineffective.
My beliefs are more conservative in comparison to popular culture. When I speak I could completely turn my audience off with some of my beliefs, but in Public Speaking 101 you learn KNOW YOUR AUDIENCE. I translate this to mean, be yourself, but know that if being 'you' turns off your audience then your lips were moving but the message never reached the intended hearers.
This is a family, friends, love and goodness planet! And Good vocabulary from the heart is the way we sleep and good edicet is our families salvation respecting the future of care for what goes on as a family! Right on Joel Comm is what I say! Write on! Heartily yours Tom D. DeVisscher!
Those who say they listen to learn and don't care about the language completely miss the point. It's not about you. It's about others. If the language used offends some people, the speaker will be less effective. It's just the way it is. It either matters to the speaker or it doesn't matter. If it does matter, then please adjust your style as it communicates that you care about your audience. If it doesn't matter, well prepare to be less effective than you could be. That's the bottom line.
I just wonder whether a person that thinks its okay to say F** in front of a large audience also thinks its okay to burp and fart in front of those same people?
I never use foul language in general as I feel it may offend those who hear it whether I am talking to them directly or not i.e they over hear my conversation.
I also feel it shows a luck of communication skills i.e. a better way to express oneself with out resorting to such language. The way I was brought up stipulates that its not good social manners so no matter how big or importand someone is, as soon as I realise they use such language I start controlling what I talk to them about and when in case they embarass me infront of other people with their fould mouth.
I feel that as individuals they luck the skill to be in tune with others as they tend to show very little care towards who find their way of talking off putting.
Having all that though, we're all individuals and were brought up differently. If someone feels they need to do something different from the rest or me, its his/ her business. If its too much of a bother to me, I can leave them alone. I am not forced to be their friends or socialise or commmunicate with them at all. No need to stress too much over their ways if I can walk away.
As in other venues, I believe it would be a good idea to indicate that the presentation contains strong language on entrances, tickets, invitations..., especially if people purchase admission.
People expect to here bad language in a bar or club, but not in a presentation for general audiences.
As far as I'm concerned it's live and let live. Too many people in our society today are "offended" at every little thing someone says. Get over yourself. You're really not that important. If we live in a free country then people should have the right to express themselves no matter what others think about it. If you ask me our freedom of speech is becoming highly limited. When I was younger you said whatever was on your mind. Now if you do that you end up on National TV giving a public apology. Please.
Joel,
I really don't like to hear speakers use profanity or vulgarity in their presentations. I was recently watching Frank Kern's CORE Influence video, and he sprinkles a few profanities and vulgarities through out it, but I am not sure he even realizes he is doing it.
Given his premise that you need to connect with people to sell to them, however, it amuses me that he isn't a little more sensitive to how he presents his ideas. I'm convinced he does NOT mean to offend or titillate with his language. It just sort of happens.
I still bought what he had to say though. It was a powerfully compelling argument, and that overcomes my unease at his occasionally offensive language.
I have to admit that I have enough trouble living up to my own standards for myself which eliminates any right I might have to cast judgment on the behavior of others, unless, of course, I am willing to be measured by the same measure I would use to judge them. Uhh. I don't think that would be a good idea. ;>(
Jerry Nielsen
Hey Joel, I really don't believe there is any requirment for anyone, let alone someone in business and speaking to a large audience needs to use this sort of language. I know how it makes me feel when I hear it from stage. There is a speaker in Australia who does this. I have heard him once but will not bother to see him again even though his subject matter is of interest to me. I don't call that quality content.
I recently asked a buddy - 30 years as an anchorman on TV - to critique a video of mine - Denial of Disease - http://www.mattinglymd.com/18.html?sm=111587 on my Energizing Your Health website: www.MattinglyMD.com.
He told me in 30 years of broadcasting he had never said the word "Hell" which I used to emphatically underline the Anger stage (2nd of 5) of progressing towards acceptance when learning about having a new disease. I must admit I had mixed feelings while recording the video about being a professional and perhaps being too brazen.
I think my media professional is right - why alienate a portion of the population my message is meant to reach and help.
Many Blessings,
Jay E Mattingly MD
Yes, Totally agree Joel.
There is just no need for it in a public audience.
and your following comments are spot on in my opinion...
"There are enough people who ARE offended by profanity that I believe it demonstrates one of two attitudes coming from the speaker.
1) They are ignorant as to how their cursing affects some people. They just aren't aware that they are offending others with their langauge. I know I wasn't aware years ago when I used profanity. The question is, what do you do once you ARE aware that you are offending a segment of your audience?
2) They have a disrespect for their audience. If the speaker IS aware that a segment of the audience will be offended and they do it anyhow, they are deliberately choosing to be disrespectful of their audience."
Low class, disrespectful, and not at all a role model for the next generation. There are plenty of descriptive words to use without having to offend ANYONE.
Last year I watched a video of a well known motivational speaker using extreme profanity, and it made me wonder why he would stoop to doing that. It is most definitely not "cool" and in my opinion has no place in public speaking at all.. and especially not the self-help genre. I believe a person should master the language to such an extent that he/she can get their message across with eloquence and intelligence, and profanity has no place in it whatsoever.
Only if you're Ramsey the F Word chef, on the television cooking show, and then only if millions of people are voluntarily watching. But, a small more intimate group, who paid to hear a professional speaker, not likely a good idea.
Hi Joel,
"F" word is not acceptable for me, and any "farting", even on iphone. I thing I am an old fashion oldie. I do not mind such a language on special situation but not in public. (Unless you are Bill Connolly).
Cheers, Maria
I don't care who they are, no one should curse from stage as a public speaker nor should anyone do so at anytime. Whether if offends someone or not is not the point. It's inappropriate communication. If a person can't get their point across without this sort of language, then they have nothing to say that would interest me. It's so sad that today's youth and young adults have resourted to using such inappropriate langue and think nothing of it. As an adult, this speaker should know better. I do not condone and it is inexcusable.
I am an entertainer and for my audience - cursing would be a huge NO-NO!
If you know your audience and you know it goes over with no ill - feelings than I say fine... an example would be Gary Vaynerchuk speaking to an audience of his followers/subscribers (I like the guy) ....
....but I would think put him in a room of people that do not know his "persona" - he may not go over as well... and if he were trying to sell BOR, he would lose sales.
Being authentic is important - but if it loses you money, credibility, etc... you have been authentic at the loss of revenue.
I curse (probably more than I should) - but never on stage and NEVER in professional situations.
I think you always have to be aware that the person you might offend, just might be the same person that is thinking of doing business with you and you never know who they might know.
It's a small world!
That's my 2 cents :)
--------------------------------------------
"SOME PEOPLE ARE LIKE SLINKIES . .. . NOT REALLY GOOD FOR ANYTHING BUT THEY DO BRING A SMILE TO YOUR FACE WHEN PUSHED DOWN THE STAIRS!"
I think swearing from the stage reflects very poorly on the speaker. It's crass, disrespectful of the audience, and very unprofessional. A professional speaker should be able to get our attention and keep it without profanity. It detracts from the message, too.
Sure, there are slippages. I wouldn't avoid a knowledgeable, generous, helpful speaker simply because of a few "minor words" or a clearly accidental "oops...," but those also tell you the speaker still has a ways to go working on his own character.
Sure, a word might be used for shock value...but it shouldn't happen often, and it shouldn't be needed if the speaker is any good! Personally, I'm not shocked by it, just turned off. You'd better display a whole lot of good character and share extensive knowledge, or your potty mouth isn't worth listening to, and you may have just lost a potential customer and "cheerleader." So if your mouth is a problem and I still listen to you, you know I've seen something good far deeper in you... but that's not the case for most! Keep working to clean up the mouth.
I believe it displays a lack of professionalism, gives an impression the speaker is both poorly educated and has no respect for his audience.
I believe you earn respect. If you choose to use language that may offend, you put that respect at risk. Personally I feel it weakens the impact of what you are trying to get across anyway. If you really respect your audience you would not do it.
Personally I've listened to some and they can get away with swearing and
others certainly can't, and shouldn't even try. It isn't particularly clever but can be thought provoking/attention grabbing if used correctly.
On the whole a great orator can deliver without a word of profanity but arriving at that port of delivery is minimal as it's very few that can command the concentrated attention required for the absorption of the well spoken words of a great speaker.
And we all do have a choice to make it a problem or not and a set of mind to walk away from what we don't want to hear.
If the speaker is a marine officer sending troops into battle - maybe. Otherwise, profanity indicates a lack or thoughtfulness, vocabulary or respect to me.
In my early twenties, I worked for a few years as a substitute teacher. I learned immediately that there are sometimes when self-censorship is absolutely necessary. If you are used to swearing constantly, then it might take some time to put a filter in place, but it can be done. And it should be done if you are attempting to hold everyone's attention in order to teach.
While I personally am not offended by it, I think profanity detracts from the speaker's message. It is okay to have personality, but it's not necessary to show it with language that is extremely offensive to some.
Many folks mentioned that it's about respecting your audience. I think that's true to a certain degree, but it's also about being professional. One of the first things you learn as a marketer is to always consider your audience. If you are turning off half or even a quarter of your listeners/readers by dropping f-bombs, then you're doing everyone involved a disservice. There are definitely folks out there who will walk out or, at the very least, tune you out if you use profanity. In this case, everyone loses.
Sara
It does bother me as I was taught hta it is a sign of ignorance. I have refused to buy Frank Kern's higher priced products because of it. Even though I would like to.
Maria Said:
March 13, 2010 10:17 AM
I think the swearing gets in the way of the message. My brain gets stuck on the swearing and the impact of that - I have to work around the swearing to hear the message. I don't understand why a speaker would want to distract any part of their audience from the message they are delivering by swearing.
Some speakers proficient in NLP like Harv Eker use it for precisely that reason. The words following the profanity slip undetected into your sub conscious. Experts in NLP can use it quite effectively but I have also seen people walk out of Harv's conferences because of it. Personally I would be much more confortable in Harv's conferences if he didn't use it and found other ways to drive his point home. Harv is an expert at it Frank Kern does use some NLP but is not the expert Harv is so he would be better off without it.
As far as the obnoxious potty noise apps I believe Joel made a fortune off them... tarnishing his rep a bit in my estimation.
Done carefully and in really small doses the f-word doesn't make me loose respect for the speaker. But it's a complete no-no in front of kids!
Blessing and cursing can't spring from the same well. Bottom line is, I won't spend a dime on whatever the person is pushing. It turns me off completely.
Personally, I prefer not to listen to a speaker who uses swear words. Nor would I want to be a person whose name comes to mind when discussing the topic.
But I would be surprised if anything any of us say here is going to change anyone who does. If they cared how they were coming across to the public in the first place, they would not do it.
Think about public speakers you have listened to and how you remember them. In other words, do you really remember the valuable content they delivered or their being able to get away with using swear words. Sorry, but human tendency is to focus on the negatives.
On the contrary, public speakers could ask themselves which way they would like to be remembered -- the valuable content they delivered, or that they were able to get away with using swear words.
From some of the comments I saw above, it looks like swearing tends to create a hiccup that interrupts concentration on the real subject matter.
Joel, thank you for bringing up this subject. The same respect that a speaker gives their audience will be returned to them. That's what makes the world go round.
Joel,
This is off the subject of this post, but I know you have a way of introducing subjects that get people's attention, so feel free to use this idea for whatever good can come of it! I would certainly not expect you to approve it for this blog, but have you heard of some of the shenanigans being pulled by hosting companies?
1and1Internet.com expects customers to continue to pay quarterly for a year. We thought we had canceled after 6 months, and ended up with a collection agency calling us. We told 1and1Internet that we thought we had canceled it after 6 months. They said there is a certain way we have to do it, but we couldn't even get into our account to do that until the collection agency was paid, because they had locked us out of our account.
After we paid the fees to the collection agency, 1and1Internet said they would send instructions to my husband's email on how to close the account. We could not cancel it until the end of one year, so we followed their instructions to close all of our accounts, and my husband got confirmation emails. In the meantime, we had to continue paying.
Next thing we knew, we got an invoice from them. This was for the domain name. We sent them the confirmation emails they had sent us. Then they wrote back and told us that according to their terms and conditions, the domain names cannot be canceled. Immediately after this, I called my credit card to report this company and to tell them I am not authorizing any charges from this company, and I gave them the confirmation number. They put a block on the account so nothing could be charged for seven days unless I approved it. So far nothing has hit that account.
Today, we realized we had a charge on another of our accounts and sure enough, when I checked, it was from 1and1Internet for one of the domain names we had canceled and we have a confirmation email saying that it was canceled. To fix this, we will have to go to the financial institution, sign a paper, and get new debit cards.
By the way, Ripoffreport.com has over fourteen complaints on their site against 1and1internet.com, and we have just filed another one. We will also file a report with Tom Corbett, Attorney General of Pennsylvania. 1and1Internet invoices have a Pennsylvania address, and they need to straighten up their act or be put out of business!
If you go to their website, they do business worldwide, but as far as I can see, you cannot tell where their business is until you get the invoice with their actual address on. Imagine the nightmare for anyone who tries to get out of doing business with them! It's bad enough for people like us in the US, but I canot imagine the nightmare they put international customers through.
Whoever heard of canceling an account and then having the company continue to charge you because their terms don't allow you to cancel. Isn't this fraud?
Fuel for the fire -- Oops, I mean topics for your blog.......
Trying to do good stuff,
Sharon
Joel,
I've said it many times and I'll say it again.
Speakers who feel they have to drop the Fbomb during their
speeches show just how juvenile and ridiculously stupid
they really are.
If they aren't clever enough or smart enough to think of some
other more effective ways to get people's attention, then they
don't belong on the stage.
I think Gary V's language is atrocious and I have zero respect
for him as a person because of it. As a business person he might
be great. But he has something seriously lacking in his personal life
if he feels the need to be "real" by dropping the Fbomb every
sentence.
David Frey
Wow this is a heated topic :)
I think it is a personal choice, which I see both sides on. I believe there is a time and place for everything. I know that certain speakers like Tony Robbins use the F bomb for deliberate impact.
Chris
This topic hits home with me...posted on Facebook about it recently relative to using "symbols" in posts - we still know what you mean, folks, and it is STILL cussing!
I am in agreement with you Joel.
To call more attention to this matter, I blogged about it on http://NetworkingForMoreBusiness.com. Including a link to this page.
If more people would take a stance, we might see action taken instead of being complacent and tolerant. BE BOLD FOR WHAT YOU BELIEVE!
Some of the names mentioned here, I have been referred to constantly. Yet, because of their language, I refuse to give them 1 cent, let alone my email address for a distribution list - no matter how "great" they might be! Saying "bleep" every time an expletive is used isn't even worth it.
I would rather spend my time, energy, and money learning from a 'student of the master' who shares the same teachings without the potty mouth talk than I do to expose myself to this language choice.
"What goes in must come out."
I prefer speakers, trainers, posts, tweets, and colleagues with a "safe for the whole family" message!
I'm curious, most of the examples given in the comments were of male speakers. What if the speaker was a female? What would happen to the tolerance level of even light-weight cursing (damn, hell, crap, screwed up)?
Do you think we still have a double standard with tolerance levels?
stephen fry's opinion,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_osQvkeNRM
also I agree with keeping swearing out of public speaking only because your trying to sell a product (even if it's you) and therefore you'll say what you need to say to make the sale. Even if that means kowtowing to some retards out of whack sensibilities. In general conversation they are words the same as any other and only hold meaning to people that give them power. to the people saying the odd hell or damn is acceptable, they aren't even swear words where I come from. you yanks need to lighten up.
How could you respect someone who is not really respectable and do not know hpw to respect others in front of the crowd? There are any other way on how you can express your thought, even without cursing, so you do not really need to curse, specially in public.
Tony Robbins, Frank Kern and Dan Kennedy have all done alright with swear words.
If you're trying to build rapport and credibility, then best not to since some do and some don't approve. A pointless risk!
If you've already established rapport with your market, then you can get away with it and it can add something to your authority and credibility, especially if done intelligently.
Thank you so much for this article. I thought I was alone in feeling that speakers that curse from the stage are very unprofessional. What you do in your private time is your business, but when I pay to see you, or learn from you, I expect to be treated with respect.
I just wrote about this on my blog and found it refreshing to find a fellow speaker who feels the way I do.