I too am a Arbonne consultant. However, when you sign up for your account you do receive a "Policies and Procedures" manual that explains in great detail the do's and don'ts of internet advertising. It also explains about the websites that were grandfathered in prior to the rule change. As a former network marketer of another company that did not regulate their consultants websites, I can guarantee you that it is best for a company to restrict the websites allowed by their consultants. I appreciate the fact that Arbonne does make it a fair and equal playing field for all consultants. Yes, there are a few consultants that have their own personal websites. But, I've been around long enough to know some of the ones that have their own websites and know for a fact that they did not build their business by website alone. This is a people to people business and takes one on one contact to really be successful. Also, nobody is required to purchase a company website. Most of the people in my upline and on my team do not own a website. It is a personal choice and is offered to those that want one. I have had nothing but a positive experience with Arbonne and look forward to continued success!

I was looking into Arbonne and my first impression is that it resembles a religious cult in the way they get people to sell their product.
It appears they have similar "brainwashing" techniques that lure you in and make you truly believe that their product is the best. Arbonne might sell great products but it's the thought of promoting the lack of independant thinking that worries me.

Some of the "mind control" techniques are:

*Donate major amounts of time and effort to the group
*Uncritically accept its teachings
*Conform to their behavioral restrictions and
*Make a permanent commitment to remain involved in the company

Now if you are in sales, the only way to truly sell is to believe in the product or service you are selling with your heart and soul. If you don't you won't sell much. So I understand why Arbonne would make you want to beleive in it's product. It's the process of making you believe in their product that worries me.

Any comments on this?

Thanks

For the record, I do NOT believe Arbonne is a cult. And I DO believe that the product is good.

But really, who reads all the fine print of the policies and procedures? I went on the word of the person in my upline who thought that I would be able to sell through my web site. And I have nothing against her either as she is a very sweet person. It's the company policy that stinks as far as I am concerned.

Ellen and others who support the company, good for you! I already work for myself and I try dozens of new things each year in order to diversify my income. There's no loss on my Arbonne investment as far as I Am concerned. It's just too bad that they aren't in the 21st Century as far as Internet marketing is concerned.

Joel

KK, you should catch the wave. Arbonne is a real company with real people building real businesses. MLM or Direct Marketing has a bad reputation because of a few companies, but that does not mean it isn't a legitimate way to build a business. Most of the people who have posted here are confused. Joel, sorry, but you should probably stick to internet type businesses. By the way, I work for a software company, my wife is an Arbonne consultant, and I'm about to become one because of the business and the product. Most people who have a problem with building a business through Arbonne's products have incorrect beliefs that they need to change in themselves, that's all. Matt and Igor are really confused and negative, which is probably why they are or have had a tough time with building a business in the first place. If you run into roadblocks, such as problems building online, find other solutions to your problems, don't complain about it and quit the business. The problem is in the attitude. KK, if you don't have a sponsor email us and we will help you by answering any questions we can.

Hi There All...
I am going to be a new mother in a couple of weeks (May 26th is the D-Day!)... I am quitting my clerical job to be a WAHM (work-at-home-mom). I am already an Arbonne Consultant and plan that to be my income (my husband has income too). Are there any secrets to success or words of wisdom from anyone out there who does Arbonne full-time? Or anything I should watch out for? I have heard about the website thing not being useful and am seriously considering not purchasing my own Arbonne site. I would appreciate any comments on Arbonne that ring true and aren't just judgement calls on MLMs. Thanks and wish me luck!!

I have just recently become familiar with the Arbonne product and am seriously considering becoming a consultant. I am currently pre-med and living on my own, and I dont have the money to be taking huge risks! I am just looking for something flexible that I can work around my school schedule. I would be interested in any advice that anyone would be willing to give me on the Arbonne experience, in particular the new "puppy dogging" approach.

It is interesting to read both the negative and positive comments regarding Arbonne. I live in Canada and have been a consultant for 7 months part time. I also have a website but I use it more for refering it to possible new consultants and clients. I have built up my buisiness without the use of my website but still feel it is a valuble tool. Arbonne is not a fit for everyone.It is something you need to work at, but the rewards of Arbonne are well worth the work. Anyone who is looking into Arbonne, I would really give it a good look and talk to consultants who have been sucessful and ask them how they did it and don't just take the word of people who didn't give it a fair chance.

You would all make much more money and "keep" your family and friends if you worked part-time at a cosmetic counter at a department store. Time is money and the time involved in selling this product, not to mention all the products and selling techniques videos they push you to buy....well, the money just doesn't add up. If you actually believe you are working for yourself, you are sadly mistaken. No need for negative comments regarding my lack of knowledge in Arbonne and how they run things. I'm very well versed in this area, as well as other MLM. If you can afford it, taking a business management course would give you a better direction and a better knowledge at how a real business is run.

Wow. A very business-like and professional response. By the way, it's "too bad" not "to bad." I'm sure you're smart enough to know that, however, and it was just a mistake on your part.

For those of you who are interested, Arbonne now has a FREE training site for registered consultants at www.arbonneuniversity.com.

Hi. Just read through most of these comments since I have some spare time which is getting more abundant as I grow my Arbonne business. Been with the company three years now and just earned my Mercedes CLK320 Convertible. I always heard and read (not from Arbonne by the way), give network marketing three to five years of truley putting in an effort. I love Arbonne! I always ran from network marketing but was so impressed with the products and the ingredients that I had to research this company very carefully. Was blown away by the integrity of the company later on. I WAS a Chem. Eng. and I make more money now than I did doing the other. I spend much less time doing this business obviously. Know many engineers working less than 40 hours a week? Yes it isn't easy to build an organization. It takes time, persistance and patience; but for me, it is so worth it. Getting to this level and helping the team move up is so much more than I imagined. Moving up the ladder is hard to do in corporate world especially if I have to wait for them to retire or they expire plus I get to pick who I get to work with! My family and friends don't hate me either. They are thrilled at my success and love the products too.

If I knew that being where I am now was this good, I would have put more effort and time (maybe 15 to 20 hours/week) to reached this point in my business sooner. I really don't put more than 10 hours a week into it. My children and family are far, far better for my efforts too. My spouse will be starting to build his own organization through Arbonne soon.

Those of you looking to sit behind a computer would do better at selling other stuff on ebay or watching your investment in the stock market. Me, I prefer to be with people, create some fantastic relationships and realize personal growth along with helping others. FYI - I use my website to send my clients to for information and setting up their own account, not to retail products. I could go on but I won't and some of you might be grateful that I didn't. He-he.

Someone mentioned a pyramid scheme. Draw out the structure of building a network marketing group were anyone on the bottom can get to the top and bypass those above if they work it hard enough. My organization doesn't look like a pyramid, it looks like a spider. However, draw out corporate America according to it's structure. CEO at the top, then VPs, then upper management, middle management, general employees, office staff etc. Looks like a triangle to me. Does anyone get to move up from the mailroom to the top whether those above them want them to or not? Corporate America paid me well but I still traded time for money. May be some of those who have posted comments don't know and should that in a pyramid scheme no product changes hands, it's illegal and that a company operating on those conditions would be out of business by the feds in a heartbeat. Arbonne has been around for 25 years and debt free at that. Probably a little more security than what corporate America offers. My father worked forty-three years, more than forty hours a week, and they retired him at 40% less because they did a mini-Enron before Enron.

I never frontloaded product and no one on the team has ever implied that a consultant should do so. In fact, we are strongly discouraged to do so. We only purchase personal use products and just enough product to be tooled for building a business which depends on your reach methods. Personally, I do believe you should make a descent investment in the tools you will need according to the reach out methods you choose. I don't believe you will make upper management just by getting a $29.00 account membership and don't know anyone who has done so. Just like any business, you need to purchase the tools to be successful and work. The client's product is ordered and shipped directly to the client through Arbonne's main website or approved Arbonne website such as mine. Rarely do I deliver product.

For those of you looking to make a difference in the health and wealth of others I can't say enough about the potential of Arbonne. It is a vehicle that can be used to help others and attain time and financial freedom as well as just make a little extra money. It is up to the individual and your effort. There are no guarantees. Well, actually, there is a 45 day money back guarantee on product.

I would be glad to answer any questions about building a business with Arbonne.

Take it for what it's worth... In addition to really doing some due diligence on the company, choose your upline manager's well. Are they successful (Is the person who sponsored them in upper management, and the person who sponsored them, etc... successful), do they support the team, check out their trainings and group meetings and what is their preferred reachout method? Some love home parties, some love sample & follow up and some love one on ones. Choose an upline that helps you find your fit, helps you grow as you go and stays connected even after training. Go meet the team!

The only training I have paid for is by my choice (not promoted by Arbonne) and deals with personal growth and leadership. Highly recommend John Maxwell's leadership and teamwork programs.

Wishing everyone personal growth, prosperity and time freedom whether you jump on the Arbonne opportunity or choose another. Those who choose not to educate themselves on network marketing may be wise to read Rich Dad Poor Dad or something from Robert Kiosaki's collections.

Sure counting my blessings everyday!

Are you people insane? Nobody is making $25,000 a month selling cosmetics. To make that much money, you'd have to be grossing $100,000 of sales a month, more or less, and I doubt that Dave or anybody else has that many friends who want to buy bogus "Formulated in Switzerland" skin products. Take a look at the label if you want an idea of how bogus Arbonne is: It says "Swiss" and "Suisse" all over it, but when you get to the fine print, it's not really Swiss at all, it's simply "Formulated" (whatever that means - it's left purposefully vague) in Switzerland. The name "Arbonne" may sound Swiss, but Arbonne is a village in the Pyrenees in south-western France and is nowhere near Switzerland. If you're a dishonest huckster and don't mind getting people to overpay for a dishonest product, or if you have no qualms about exploiting the labors of those who come below you in the pyramid scheme, then Arbonne is for you. Otherwise, get a real job and leave the rest of us alone.

I understand about Joel's frustration about the website because I had originally thought I would make most of my ARBONNE money using my arbonne website. However, when my friends started making serious money using the Puppy system I quickly changed my thought process and started using the system myself. And to backup Dave's post about his wife making $25,000 a month, I know people making more than $25,000 a month and I know a bunch of people using the Puppy System that are making $5,000, $10,000, $15,000 a month. The Puppy system is the only way to do this business if you want to make real money. No parties, No running around trying to sell product, just finding 4 people that you can work with.

What an interesting insight from various people regarding this subject. What you all have forgotten is that each person as a choice in this country. When making a choice in starting a business, all information, facts and otherwise should have been carefully researched by that person. In my experiences with at least 8 different network marketing companies, Arbonne stands alone in its committment to its products, service and training. Arbonne has a turn-key business for anyone who has the drive to get them were they want to go...........Its not for the faint-hearted & its not your traditional business. Arbonne has created a system that works for anyone who works it.......its that simple.

Gosh...I wasn't going to comment on your post domestic diva, because I feel like I've said enough here, but the more I thought about your comments, the more I felt compelled to share a story that I think is relevent. Back in 1983 I left my "career" as a radio announcer because I wanted to get into sales, thinking I could make more money. I prepared by reading every sales training book I could get my hands on. The first sales job I had I was selling a home improvement product, which to this day is one of the best products of its kind on the market. Many sales people in my office were doing extremely well and making tons of money. Yet, after 2 months I hadn't sold a thing. Not a dollar's worth. The product was great. The company top rated. Yet I failed terribly. I left there and went to work for a computer company. Back then desktop computers were just beginning to hit the market. It was the days of MS-DOS and IBM PCs. My company was one of IBM's biggest competitors, yet we were very small in comparison, but I believed we had a better product..and we did. We sold mostly to businesses because home buyers didn't really exist then. I was great at selling computers and won many sales contests and earned several awards. What was the difference? I don't know. Maybe I didn't come across as believable, or maybe my presentation was boring. But I know that while I failed at one thing, I excelled at another. Maybe Arbonne isn't right for you. Maybe something else is. But I'm sure the products and the company were not the reason you failed. Something in your presentation was obviously not working and your sponsor should never have allowed you to do 5 parties without any sales. Now and then we all have bad parties. But on average, if you have 4 or 5 people, you should do at least $250 to $500 in retail volume. Arbonne is a sales business. You can't escape that fact. Some people are better at it than others, but it almost always comes down to, as Michael Clouse says, does the prospect "know you, like you and trust you."? Those components need to be in place in any sales position, Arbonne or not. Joe Girardi, a famous car salesman, wrote a book years ago entitled, "How to Sell Yourself" and he makes the point that selling success begins with selling yourself first. People won't buy from you if they don't trust you or like you. Or maybe you simply presented to the wrong crowd. Arbonne has gone from $25 million in sales in 2002 to what will be $400 million this year. Somebody is selling it with success! That can't happen by accident. Anyway..best wishes for future success.

I have been with Arbonne for a little over 3 yrs. I'm a former teacher turned at-home-Mom (I have my M.Ed.) with 3 young children - they were ages 5, 3 and newborn when I started.

Today I am a National Vice President and my paycheck is $20K a month - that's 5 times my former teaching salary. My husband is retired at age 37. I work 20 hours a week from my home office and my schedule revolves around my family time. We are living the life of our dreams. I earned my Mercedes after only 18 months and we're buying a new home that we never could have afforded before. Thank you, Arbonne!

I have also seen the lives of many people change because of this incredible company. My family members and friends (not alienated at all) are happily earning their Mercedes and are quitting their 9 to 5 jobs to work part-time from home as well. Arbonne is a 25 yr old company that has had 100% growth for the past 3 yrs in a row and over 150% growth from Jan to May in 2005. Arbonne is exploding and it's not because it's a pyramid or a scam.

Say what you want about Arbonne... until you have done your own investigating (not taking the word of anyone on this site, especially the author) you won't really know if Arbonne is right for you or not.

One more thing you need to know: when you get to the level of Area Manager in Arbonne you can will your paychecks (that keep coming after you should pass away)to your children or spouse. I don't know of any other companies that provide that kind of service.

I wish all of you the best in your endeavors. I hope you will take the time to do some true investigating on your own - this company is worth it.

Hi Joe -

Anyone can go on to the Arbonne company web site or any Arbonne Consultant's web site and sign up with an account, receiving 35% off instantly. I personally don't have any clients that pay the full retail price - I sign up my clients with their own wholesale account (you also get to choose any one product of your choice for free with a $100 sign-up order - cost to you is $65 for the order with the discount) so they can order at their leisure and receive the 35% off. It's like having a Sam's Club or Costco card.

I used to think Arbonne's products were expensive too until I did some price comparisons. And with the discount you can't go wrong...

Hi Candace and thanks for the generous comments. I know that there�s the chance that someone thinking about starting an Arbonne business my stumble upon this site and I think it would be a shame if they decided against it because of a comment from someone who is either mistaken on their facts or who failed because they tried some method that has never been proven to work. If we can point out those errors maybe someone will take the opportunity to dramatically change their life for the better and be successful. I know our lives have been forever changed for the better and it really wasn�t that complicated. It just took commitment and persistence. I�m sure Joel didn�t intend this thread to be a tool for encouraging people to get aboard the Arbonne train, but the story of this company and the remarkable success that�s occurring across the country cannot be denied. Despite the negative comments that pop up here, people are doing this business and many of them are building fabulous businesses and earning incredible incomes. That�s going to continue for quite a while. Anyone who passes this opportunity up is only allowing someone else to take the business that could have been theirs.

BTW�Congratulations on your promotions and I�ll look for your RVP announcement in the near future. I�ll look for you in Hawaii!

To answer your questions though�No, we built our business for the most part training on and doing class presentations along with a lot of �one-on-ones�. It�s only in the last few months that we�ve adopted the �puppy� system and we�ve had great success with it. But people on our team are finding that using the puppy system is also a great way to get classes. People who use the product and buy it are sometimes asking if they can host a class. So I would say our strategy now is to generate interest among those who we are targeting as potential business builders by using the puppy system and then using those contacts to schedule some classes. Our feeling is that whatever works for you is what you should concentrate on, but a combination of approaches is proving very effective.
And yes, I have heard of the Nichols and their success. We�re direct to Cecilia so we are fairly tied into what�s happening in OK, even though we�re in the Mid Atlantic region. I�m thrilled to hear about other�s success. Best wishes for your continued success and enjoy your car!

Once again, I would ask the scam artists to please stop preying on the credulous and the desperate. The puppy dog system is a pyramid scheme, pure and simple. You pay $1,500 or so for four kits, get four gullible friends to take them and then sign up to buy another $1,500 worth of kits, and then you earn money on your friends' purchases. The catch - and there's always a catch - is that you have to buy $70 or so of products EVERY MONTH in order to earn "upstream" revenues. So the pyramid scheme only works when 1) you're wasting your family's money on buying Arbonne's bogus, new age cosmestics; and 2) the people you're preying on downstream are also buying the products. But sooner or later the house of card falls apart, because the people at the very bottom eventually realize they're on the bottom and can't find anybody to scam into the pyramid, and they stop buying the products. The people one rung up from them then stop buying the products, because they don't have anyone beneath them sending revenue upstream anymore, and pretty soon everyone realizes it's a scam and stops paying high prices for lotions in Arbonne's pretty bottles. If you get in at the top, you've already made a pretty penny, but if you're at the middle or the bottom you lose, and all your supposed friends who claimed they would change your life have exploited you to take money away from you and your family.

Now I know that the Arbonne people on this web site are going to sceam at me for being "negative", but that's exactly right - I have a negative opinion of anyone who, just to make a quick buck, would try to scam their friends and family into a pyramid scheme where those at the bottom of the scheme are guaranteed to lose money. You may have convinced yourselves that this is a "life changing" company, but it's not. It's a pyramid scheme, and anyone who participates in it should be ashamed of themselves.

Joel, You are welcome to join our yahoo club called mlmsurvivorsclub. You can find it also on the www.mlmsurvivor.com website. I have been involved in a few mlm's and party plans and the mlm's are the worst as far as deception goes (by the higher ups). We have lost thousands of dollars chasing a "dream" of making it in an mlm that has never paid out the way they promise. I wish you the best! Stay away from mlm's!! -Jennifer

Hi! I, too signed up as an Arbonne consultant, but have not "acted" on it, because I could not host any classes. Now, with the puppy dog system it is doable. However, I have questions regarding the income. My friend who signed me up won't answer my questions regarding how much she makes, so I thought I try this forum instead. If I invest the time and the money, I would like to know if it's worth it. The overrides are a bit confusing. Seems to me that if you are a DM, and your retail volume is say $5K, you only get 8% off of the 65% override volume ($3250), which equals $260. My friend is qualifying for AM this month, so if she has a RV of $10K, that means she only makes $520, correct? That sounds like peanuts to me and not the thousands of dollars people are claiming to make. It seems Dave lives in a high-income area, which we don't. Can anybody give me some real incomes of DM's and AM's or even consultants? Also, how much RV do I have to have to make say $800 per month? Thanks!

First Andrea...

Yes, your math is correct. You'd get an override of $260. But if you had 5 signups in that month you'd also get the DM bonus of $200. If you had any of your signups go with the RSVP order you'd get $50 for each of those. Your friend at Area would make the $520 plus her DM bonus as well if she had $5000 in her District and 5 signups for a total of $720 plus any RSVP bonuses. Once she gets to Area that same volume would get her an additional $390. So if $800 a month is what you're after, get to Area and you'll have it. No one makes big pay checks at District. It's a building process like any other business. (I'm sure that Bill Gates makes a bigger paycheck today than he did the first year Microsoft was founded.) It may not seem like much at first, but I'd bet if you figure out the hourly wage it would be equal, if not better, than working at Walmart or almost any parttime job.

Your friend however should be willing to tell you what her last override check was. Also, if you got to the Arbonne web site you will find a section listing the average bonus and override payouts per quarter at each level.

Now to Ed..
Come on Ed....do you really think Arbonne is trying to pull something over on us? I'm sure there's an explanation. At NTC this year they had a slide show of the place. There have been National Vice Presidents who have visited it. I'm asking myself, and getting no answer, "what would be the purpose, what motive, or how would this benefit the bottom line of the company, to talk about a place that doesn't exist?" And how would they get all these NVPs who have gone there to get on board with keeping up the illusion?? I don't know what the rules are in Switzerland about business listings, but it's not a retail store. The don't need to advertise. It's a private research laboratory. Only the people who work there need to know where it is.

This kind of reminds me of the Beanie Baby craze 8 or 9 years ago where there were all these stories of people unable to find where Ty, the manufacturer, was located, like there was some big conspiracy. Reporters were all over the Chicago area asking people where this Ty company was located and nobody knew. They weren't in the phone book either. hmmmmmmm...interesting.

Yes Ed, your question is simple enough...but irrelevant don�t you think? Unless you�re accusing Arbonne of fabricating a story about a fictional research laboratory, what difference does it make if the place is or isn�t listed in the phone book? But I guess that�s what you�re doing so that�s why it matters what is on your mind. The explanation is surely a simple one as I said, but is it really worth spending time on it? There's not one good reason to make such a story up. The suggestion is simply ludicrous.

So if I take you up on your suggestion, Ed, that I "prove you wrong"....what will that accomplish for you personally? Are you losing sleep at night? Are you needing therapy because of this question? Are you afraid that your uncertainty will cause undue harm to someone? I don't get why this is such a burning question for you. You really believe that a 25 year old company would be perpetrating a fraud so they could sell more product with the �Swiss� name on it and that after 25 years of a spotless record YOU are the first person to figure this caper out and report on it? It�s just silly, sorry to say. So if I provide an address, or an explanation for your inability to track down this international conspiracy, what do I get in return? An apology? You see it�s not worth my time to bother. I know individuals who have been there and they have no reason to lie. I�ve seen their pictures. Up until recently the pictures of NVP Jeanne Sterner�s visit were right on the Arbonne website. It�s such a moot point I can�t believe I�m even commenting on it!

Joel, it's interesting I found your blog today on this topic! I was looking at my hits to my blog where I also discussed this topic. My time is up as of July 4, 2005, and I completely agree with the frustration you have experienced trying to sell online. I have also noticed that some consultants could do things to advertise online and others are not allowed to do so. Replicated sites are worthless in the search engines, whether we pay $39 or not to promote them. I got www.ShareSkinCare.com to promote it so I wouldn't have the product name online. It's just God telling me to stick with my artwork :) and not get tempted by any more direct sales...so I'm going to listen to Him this time! (if you check out shareskincare.com you will see I have removed any promotion from there, and when the time is up, I am going to forward the link to my art site).

I'm sorry I had lost touch with you, I am still interested in doing some art for you if you are interested, please contact me. Sorry we lost touch somehow.

Ed- So glad someone else has had the same doubts about Arbonne's supposed Swiss-ness. I called the Registre de Commerce (Business Registry) in Sion, Switzerland (+41 27 322 92 05), and the officials there say there is no "Arbonne" registered in the Canton of Valais, nor have they ever heard of anything named "Arbonne". Sion is a town of just under 20,000 people, so if there were in fact an "Arbonne Institute of Research & Development" in Sion, Switzerland (As Dave, the guy whose wife supposedly makes $25k a month, claims in the post above), you would think that the Business Registry would at least have heard of the place. I, too, have asked Arbonne, Inc. for more details on the "Arbonne Institute of Research & Development", and they have avoided the request. This just seems like one more reason to avoid the company altogether.

I'll supply an address, Ed, or at least a description of the location if I can. Frankly, I've never been there so I can't tell you first hand where to find it. I'm sure it's not a huge place. There's probably only 10 or 12 employees. I have written to one of the NVPs who has been there, and by the way, has a picture of her standing in front of the place on her Eye On Arbonne. (EOAs are printed success stories from VPs) However, since I'm so confident the place exists and since your are adamant that it doesn't...so much so that you now have "Get Real" piling on....I'm tempted to suggest a little wager. How much can you afford to lose??

Hi Dave,
There is no need for a bet, I have good faith in you, if the place exists you will come up with an address and phone number. I have no complaint about Arbonne products and it seems MLM marketing schemes are here to stay in spite of what I think of them.
My point is, if...and I say IF, a company is going to plaster the Swiss flag all over their products and claim that they are formulated in Switzerland in their research laboratory and the whole thing turns out to be a fabrication then I think that would speak volumes about the scruples of the people that are running the company, don't you?

Hi Dave,
I have also found the address and phone number of Pierre Bottiglieri. I have a call into SCC which according to Arbonne is the organization he is supposed to be president of (he is not the president by the way) and he is supposed to call me back....so far there has been no reply. I will let you know the moment I hear something.
Regards, Ed

>>I don�t think that the truth about AIRD can in anyway be considered an example of deceit or lying on the part of Arbonne.>>

Hi Dave,
I beg to differ. They actually do say that AIRD is their private laboratory. This is from a letter that I received from Arbonne:

>>All of Arbonne's premium Swiss Skin Care products are meticulously formulated at our private laboratory, AIRD, where each individual product has a proprietary formula that is never compromised. All of our products are made in the USA by contract manufacturers who follow all strict manufacturing guidelines set forth by AIRD in order to obtain the beneficial properties of the formulations. AIRD is located in Sion Switzerland and is run by Director, Pierre Bottiglieri. Pierre has a long list of achievements and accreditations that make him a true asset to Arbonne. >>

Many Arbonne web pages site the AIRD as being a private laboratory when as we now know there is no such thing as AIRD.

Another web site at: http://www.makeupbusiness.com/arbonne.html says it is a Swiss company that moved to the States: "Arbonne has an almost 30 year history of providing skin care products that are unsurpassed in quality and effectiveness. The Swiss company, founded in 1975 by Petter Morck and a team of biochemists, biologists and herbalists, expanded to the United States in 1980, and from there, became Arbonne International, with a worldwide network of distributors." As we now know Arbonne or AIRD has never been a Swiss Company.

This one I particularly like: "We have AIRD, our own research & development lab in Sion, Switzerland. Yes, we're a Swiss product and that's a BIG deal to a LOT of people. Our lab is headed up by Pierre Bottiglieri who is arguably the leading cosmetic chemist in the world, and has served as the Managing Director or AIRD for over 4 years." From http://beautifulskin4u.myarbonne.com/arbonne/beautifulskin4u.nsf/viewpage/2?OpenDocument&pagename=t5body2.htm

The list goes on and on. I fail to see how you could not see this as deceptive. This company is NOT Swiss and it has never been Swiss.

As I see it: "Arbonne has bought their formulas from Swiss labs and then sub-contracted the production to American manufactures and then relies on private individuals to market their product for them. Arbonne is a 200 million dollar company that invents nothing, manufactures nothing and sells nothing. All based on the half-truth of being a Swiss company selling Swiss Quality." WOW!

I have a question. I am a new consultant and altough I am happy with the products and the results I'm getting, I have some concerns about the company as well. I did a search in the BBB and came up with:

Arbonne International
5411 S. Stonewood Dr.
Mount Vernon, IN 47620
Telephone: (812) 985-9963

The BBB reports on members and non-members.

Original Business Start Date: January 1980 Service Contact: Mrs. Jane Koch , Owner
Local Start Date: June 1997 Employees: 1
Principal: Mr. Dan Koch , Owner File Open Date: June 1998
TOB Classification: Skin Care, Multi-Level Selling Co.
BBB Membership: This company is not a member.

Who are these people?

Grace....to answer your question, I don't know who those people are, but it's very possible they are independent consultants who decided, or were required by the state or local municipality, to register their home based business with the BBB.

Hi All,
I am enjoying this banter and comments on Arbonne! As a stay-at-home mom, I am interested in bringing in extra income to help my family. My good friend and I are exploring Arbonne opportunities and hosting our first "party" in a few weeks. Her sister in Denver is doing great after only a few months, and will be flying in to help us.
Can anyone out there offer me some advice on the first few months, and what to expect (within reason)? We are in NC and it doesn't seem to have made much impact here...yet!
Thanks~

Dave,
I would guess that profiting from a situation gives you a different perspective. I agree...let's just call it a day on this forum and go our separate ways. Any future readers can make up their own minds.
Ed

Hi Claire...
Good luck on your kick-off party. I too am a stay-at-home-mom (well actually now a work-at-home-mom). The advice I have is this: use the products and get excited about them. When you have a passion for them, people will see that passion and get excited too. Also, use the graham cracker/ baby oil demonstration at your parties. If you don't know what that is, email me. And another important thing to remember: don't get discouraged about no-shows. I have had a couple no-show parties and it really brought me down. But when people eventually start showing up, they usually always buy product. Keep bugging people to come... they never leave the party regreting they came. Remember... don't be afraid you're bugging them. These products really do change lives and you want to help them.
Also... offer rewards in return for them booking a party for you (little freebies like the lip gloss or the hand cream). Don't be afraid to give a little... the result will be a very successful business. Another thing I suggest (if you can afford to do this) is to have people order things and tell them not to pay you up front. Tell them to pay you when their orders come in. That is what made me order my first Arbonne products! I didn't feel like handing money over til I had the products in my hand. And the most important thing....get out there and start loving on people. What got me motivatd to get this business started is knowing that success is VERY possible. GOOD LUCK GIRL! Come rollin' out here to california when you get your new benz!!
serra
serrabug@verizon.net

Wow! I never thought my insignificant comments would cause such a stir!

Those who have taken an extremely defensive posture for Arbonne need to take it down a notch. It's the "this is the best thing since sliced bread and if you aren't in it" mentality that chases people away. Sure, the product is good. But it's just creams and lotions... not rocket science.

For those who doubt that people are making serious money, I've got some friends that are doing VERY well. The one who signed me up got her car in a matter or months, her husband has quit his job and there seems to be no ceiling for her income. And I think that is fantastic!

My biggest beef with the company is the way they have handled the online business. They do not offer a level playing field and they sell worthless web services (such as the search engine submission).

My wife does love the RE9 Nutrimin C line...

Joel

Well, Joel, I thought your comments had pretty much finished off this conversation, but alas, Dotti comes along and I have to comment. Sorry, I'll try to keep it short. lol

Dotti, Can I ask you a question? Did you sign up to just buy your products at a discount, or are you wanting to involve yourself in the business? Depending on that answer, I would have different things to say, but in either case, your issues are easily addressed.

First off though, you should look online at the Arbonne website under Product Knowlege and you'd find the sell sheets on each product that specifies usage. Under color there's information on the color tints.

Unfortunately with Arbonne growing so fast it's hard to keep up with the demand from callers. I'm sure they are working on hiring new operators to field phone calls, but I've been on hold forever for companies like Dell, Verizon, AOL, Bank of America...and on and on. In the future I'd advise you to email your questions to Arbonne or to your sponsor. Even if you called your sponsor at today's rates how much are we talking? There are LD rates as low as 3-cents. If you talked for an hour we're talking $1.80.

It is 3:10AM and I just finished reading this entire page top to bottom, with several jumps to related topics.

I now have 6 windows opened for my girlfriend to read before making up her mind on whether to pursue this thing. ( she asked me to research it at 10PM)I will support her regardless of her decision.

I gotta say, Joel wins here. Dave left me with the impression he was a plant from the "company" and if not, he is way too slick. Too many stories. I just can't trust people like him. (not to say he did not represent himself well, until the whole institute "issue".

Joel, I think we should buy a few recipe's for lotion and lipstick. We could probably find the same company Arebonne gets theirs from, license it, brand it, find a mfg to manufacture it in West Texas where the land is cheap and the cost of living less than California. With this lower overhead, we could sell it for half as much and start our own MLM/NM company that we are the kings of and skate away after a few years to that castle you said you have. I'll buy one next door and we can send Dave a new SUV every year.

What do you say?

My open windows:
http://www.harvpart.com/investments/index.html
http://www.harvpart.com/investments/arbonne.html
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/invest/mlm.htm
http://www.mlmsurvivor.com/tentests.htm
http://homebusinessesforwomen.blogspot.com/
http://www.mlmsurvivor.com/fitzpatrick.htm

Oh Dave, Dave, Dave

I had to go back and reread my post to try to find out what was said to require such viciousness from you.

I actually fail to see it. But let's see if this causes you to need to take an 80mg Bayer.

1. I posted several sites with pros and cons to Arbonne. Including this one with yours and others who have good stories to tell expounding on the virtues of Arbonne.

2. I never once stated I was recommending for or against Arbonne. I simply said your argument was weaker within this forum. I am merely doing due diligence at her request.

3. You make direct remarks about "how far I have 'gotten' in life, without my making any representation of such or you knowing me. Shame on you Dave. I doubt your 'learn't' that reading "How to Sell Yourself". Perhaps you should do a re-read.

The fact is you and I have more in common than you think and that is probably the reason for your attack. I began with an associate�s degree in Mass Comm and was also in radio. Did you get a degree in radio Dave, or just fall into it?

I however, did not quit radio to go into sales because "I thought I could make more money". Which is apparently what drives you.

I quit because the people around me did drugs and other disgusting things. I made a moral decision to get out. Not to "make more money".

I then obtained a degree in Finance and worked in Oil and gas for a few years. Afterwards, I went back to complete my MBA.

I wound up at, your competitor. Humm, you say your product was better? Guess personnel was inferior since you didn't win? I however cannot claim to have beaten you, as I am much younger than you.

Long story short, Dave. I am 43. I am retired and I expect, much happier than you.

Regarding MY feelings on the Arbonne venture? I did not impose my opinion on anyone. I will now however. And I will give it because I have experience. More, I suspect, than the average reader here. My experience leads me to agree with GetReal. And I assure you no one could have said it better when he said,

"I have a negative opinion of anyone who, just to make a quick buck, would try to scam their friends and family into a pyramid scheme where those at the bottom of the scheme are guaranteed to lose money. You may have convinced yourselves that this is a "life changing" company, but it's not. It's a pyramid scheme, and anyone who participates in it should be ashamed of themselves."

I hope you chase that dollar Dave. Chase it hard, and chase it long. But when you catch it you will see that it won't make you happy. It won't validate you.

(Let me just let you know up-front Dave, I am finished, I will not respond regardless of how you bait me. I am finished)

I wish all who are reaching for their goals much success. Sell your Arbonne because you believe in it, but don't be blinded by it. If you can sell lotion, you can sell anything. So don�t fret the future. But only sell what you can believe in. Treat people fairly and you will succeed.

But if you are like Dave and it is only riches you seek, you will in the end be disappointed.

Junkman

I just wanted to say a little about myself and how I think Arbonne has truly been a blessing in my life. I started with Arbonne in the beginning of April. A friend introduced it to my by letting my try some of the products and I loved them. I had never heard of the company before but the product really sold itself to me. I was introduced to the business side of it and it was at a time of real need. My husband was without a job and we took all of our savings out and took a leap of faith. We started this business.

I promoted to the 1st level as District Manager in 6 weeks and received my 1st paycheck as District Manager of $1500. The next month (June) I made Area Manager and am thrilled about my business. In a couple of months I will be expecting to replace what my husbands income was. We have 3 kids and I am expecting another any day now. I also feel greatful that if anything was to happen to me, I can will the business to my family and they will be set for life.

We do this business a little different than most. We don't have parties and we just share the business idea. What I love about this business is that we don't need everone or just anybody to do this with us to earn a significant income. That's why it is so attainable.

I love what I do!

You know Darla, people say those things because they are true. When you're a stay at home mom, or a burned out career woman, and you suddenly (in a year or so, more or less) double your "career" income, or dramatically improve your home finances, it IS a blessing, you DO love what you do, you DO get a car you would have never bought for yourself. I know because we did it and I feel exactly as Jen. I'm sure you're not from my area..but you're welcome to request thru an email the link to our team website where you can link to the RVPs on our team and read their stories.

I know Darla from reading your comments on the �Puppy Dog� approach that 1) you have no formal sales training or you would know what that is immediately or 2) you have not been involved or paying attention at all. The �Puppy Dog� approach is a long used sales technique by professional sales people where they loan their product to the prospect with the belief that once they try it, they�ll decide they can�t be without it. Kind of like when you are given a puppy. After a week, who could give it back? Did you ever get an offer for 3 free months of a magazine subscription? THAT�s the puppy dog system. But secondly, Arbonne has required that we not use that terminology and we use now �the Results approach� which, by the way, is right on the Arbonne website. Guess you missed it.

What annoys me with the comments being made by the skeptics is first, they are entirely based on ignorance and pessimism. I�m sorry if that offends you skeptics, but it�s true. And secondly, they are being made specifically for the purpose of impugning the integrity of those Arbonne consultants who have been successful. I read Joel comments and I don�t see anywhere that this was what he intended. His comments and criticisms were made in good faith and about specific experiences he had. That�s fine because those kinds of comments can be discussed and even resolved. But comments like Get Real, Junkman and you, Darla, that are basically saying, �I can�t do it, or I don�t like it, therefore all those who can and do are liars, cheats and losers is unfair and frankly, unbecoming. You expose your true nature with those comments and I have no doubts as to why you failed.

very interesting posts. I thoroughly enjoyed this though http://www.mlmsurvivor.com/tentests.htm

Everything has pros and cons, people will just pick a theory.

Good luck whatever you choose!

Wow, some of you need to get a life! I started reading this site to help me make a decision on whether or not I should start an Arbonne business and at first the posts were helpful, but now it's turned into such a circus that none of the recent posts hold any credibility with me.

However, after more extensive research which involved many other sites, I have decided to give this business a shot.

Good luck to those of you who have decided to work Arbonne and also to those of you who have chosen other paths. There is something suitable out there for everyone and I'm sure you'll all find it if you haven't already.

You "get rich quick" people, live beyond your means people make me sick.

Life's not about money.

Oh, and I already made it in the "B" sector.

Schmucks.

Wow, these posts really got intense. Well, I am also a consultant with Arbonne and I am extremely proud of it.

And I do have a few comments to make,

Arbonne is (as our President, Rita Davenport says) a face-to-face, belly-to-belly company and I am glad it is. The internet is amazing for a lot of reasons, but we should not lose the personal contact and I believe that is what a lot of others in this site are suggesting.

Arbonne has incredible products and yes, you can make the type of money that has been stated. But Arbonne has so much more to offer. Unlike a lot of other companies, Arbonne leads with the heart. We empower others to do something we seem to have forgotten....to dream. My aging mother is living with my husband and I. Arbonne is allowing me to be able to care for her both in person and financially. I have been in corporate America, and if you miss too much time from the office, you then become a liability. It's not that way with Arbonne or Network Marketing. If you build your team strong enough, you can still earn a substantial income, even if you cannot work that day, or week, or month. Arbonne is really a gift.

For those of you who are doubting the validity of AIRD and the money that can be made. It doesn't matter, you probably doubt Jesus also.

I know it can work, I am living proof. I worked in downtown DC at a very large law firm. It took me 2 hours every day to go to and from work, now it takes me 2 minutes.

If anyone wants more information, please contact me at mlon622@yahoo.com.

Okay, I am an Arbonne consultant and what this person has done is in violation of Arbonne's way of going about doing our business. Why is he allowed to do this, get business from doing this and we are not! His site is still current -this is morally wrong and should be removed!

Hi Laura. I'm not sure what meetings you're talking about. Sometimes an RVP or NVP holding local meetings will charge a nominal fee, maybe $5.00, to help cover the cost of the room if the meetings are held in a hotel or restaurant. There may also be some consultants who ask that attendees also contribute to the cost of photocopies made of training materials. Our monthly meetings cost about $275 for the room and we usually do about $200 or more in copies for about 120 people. We ask for $5 from each consultant and guests are free. But we would not turn away any consultant who said they couldn�t afford the $5. Generally we break even doing this. Anything extra we collect is used toward other meetings for beverages or snacks. When our team was smaller, we often didn�t cover the expenses.

Arbonne specifically prohibits charging for training. If your VPs or Managers are charging you for training, then I would point out to them that it�s not allowed. If they�re asking for you to share in the expense of the facility and the cost of materials, then you should have no problem with that. When you get to RVP or NVP you�ll appreciate that consultants share your expenses when it benefits them. Realistically, there is no business you can operate without expenses.

If there's some other meeting your referring to, let me know.

Best wishes for great success Jack! I'm sure you'll be happy you made this decision. If you're a golfer, keep in touch. The men often play golf together at NTC and on the trips. There's always room for more.

Just a note of correction. I see in my last post I accidently hit an extra zero and didn't catch it. We usually do about $20 in copies, sometime much more, but not $200. My error. Also, back to Laura: I should have added that any local meetings are not sponsored or paid for by Arbonne. The meetings are held by independent consultants, as you said. Even NVPs are independent and any meetings are at their expense. I'm not sure that was clearly stated.

Wow! What a heated discussion! I've been with Arbonne for 5 months now, and made district manager last month. My first big check was this month and was $700. So I can't complain. I must admit as with any company, it has its downfalls and frustrations, but I truely feel called to do this and am trying to make this work for me. I've done two parties so far...that's it! I don't like them and am excited to start doing the "results approach" IF I can find people out there to hand these out to! For the ones who say it's too expensive...if you compare to other cosmetics companies, it's really not. Arbonne products are very saturated and it takes much less product, meaning it lasts longer. I also offer every customer of mine 50% off every time I order. I do this because I get more orders this way...people JUMP on that offer! Just another idea...

Read through alot of the above comments. Just wanted to say I have been a consultant since the end of October 2004 and have a "myarbonne" website. The site does not generate much attention. Just enough - to get my personal product free (and I generally get alot of personal product). Not into "begging" friends to buy or meeting a quota. Always very skeptical about anything get rich quick or sell, sell, sell. I do not have parties. Well, I would if anyone I knew had the time or was really interested in a party. Most are generally just burned out by all the candle parties, scrapbooking workshops and home living parties. Anyway, don't have the need once I tell a friend and they try one or more of the products. The most skeptical ones end up trying the free samples I give and become my best customers. Just want my friends to know what a great product it is. And hey, why not make a little if I am promoting a company. I have a great full time business/dream job. This is just for fun for me. My husband & I always want to have a backup plan(job), in case something happens to either his or my business. So if something did happen, for $15 a year, I would be started. Once I find something I like I stick with it. Rarely have time to go to the mall and deal with counter people. Don't shop much on the Internet. Arbonne makes it easy to shop and I generally get my products within 1 week of order. Also love the Christian atomosphere and friendships.

Liked the mention of John Maxwell in another post above. Well, I believe, the only way to make money in Arbonne (or anything) is to believe in it and to Work at it. How much money you make and how much work you do is totally up to you. CONGRATULATIONS to Kim, my upline on getting her Mercedes in a couple of weeks.

Thanks for all of the posts and info on Arbonne.
It was good to see the pros and cons.
I don't have a lot of money to drop into it and it seems that Arbonne is a MLM/Networking Company I am glad I found this sight. I also do see some intent to deceive with the whole "swiss labs" thing. There are other questions too. We all know the adage "if it seems too good to be true, then it probably is".
I believe if the right questions are asked then the attempt to deceive becomes more clear...

Congratulations on your decision Stephanie! Work hard and be persistent and you�ll do great. You�re absolutely right about the products and I�m glad you�re experience was so positive. I share your sentiments exactly.

As for Shirles comments above; I�m not sure what your point is. I know you mean well, but I�d be interested in WHY you think the labeling that says �Formulated in Switzerland�, which is 100% true btw, is deceptive? Please explain because to me you sound like a person who often finds it hard to be trusting of what others say; you�re a cynic in other words, and therefore because you don�t believe it completely then there must be something fishy going on. That�s what I get from your post anyway. And that�s okay but I�d be interested in what evidence you have or what is it about Arbonne that you find suspicious or deceptive?

As far as I can tell, no one here has posted a �too good to be true� portrayal of Arbonne. It�s a great company and they make great products. Is that what�s so hard to believe, or so good it can�t be true? I know lots of companies that are run well and make great products and I�m sure you do too. Is it the income aspect that�s too good to be true? It�s not. Arbonne promoted over 100 consultants to RVP last month. That�s the level where you get your Mercedes. The business works because the product is good and the company is well structured and well managed. It�s not �too good to be true� because it still takes hard work and effort on the part of the consultant to make that money. Too-good-to-be true is when you�re promised you don�t have to do anything to make a lot of money. No one is promising that.

I signed up with two RE9 sets as a consultant. That cost me about $470. I do tell my friends about it. Arbonne is honestly good product and you know that. By the way- getting that stuff from ebay-how long has it been in their closet? Do you get a guarantee? Why put something on your face and body that was shipped to you from some unknown place? Who knows what gross stuff could be in those bottles? -just seems risky. Why can't you just buy it from another consultant? What are you trying to prove? The person you don't know who sells it on ebay-which is not allowed but they are willing to risk it - must be connected to Arbonne somehow. You would rather buy it from that stranger than find an honest person to buy the product from?

The product/company is not at the heart of this debate. It cannot be denied that many people can and do succeed in MLM. And they are to be commended for very hard work...in a tough and awkward industry. MLM becomes problematic when individuals sell a dream to friends/family that either do not have the skill set required to succeed or an ACCURATE understanding of what it takes to succeed. That�s the bottom line. MLM is NOT for everyone.

Also�Dave. If you are confident in your chosen profession and the company that facilitates it, you shouldn�t have to spend so much their defense. Both should be able to stand on their own.

John,

What you say about MLM is true. The way that it works is a huge turnoff for me for several reasons.

1) Most people are not mature enough to work the business truly looking out for other people. Greed is a huge motivator in MLM. There is the facade of "I have something to tell you about that will change your life", but beneath the surface many MLMers are really just hoping to change their own lives.

2) I HATE the "warm market" principle. The first thing you are told to do is to tell your family and friends. AAARGH! I had a friend call and invite me to a meeting a couple weeks ago. It put me in a position of having to say "no". I don't want to go to meetings. I don't want to hear about the latest pill to make me look like Sean Connery. I don't want to hear hype. And I don't want to be in a business where it will depend on me to pump up others. Been there, done that.

3) Most people don't have the skill set to do MLM. It is easy to get excited about world-changing product and incremental revenue graphically displayed on the white board. It's another to actually get out there and DO IT.

4) I have a business. If I can dabble in something on the side and make a few $$$, I'm all for it. But so many MLMers make MLM their lives. Suddenly, all their friends are in the same business. If you aren't in the business, you simply aren't with the "in" crowd.

Granted, there ARE people who CAN handle MLM. I like to think I know some of them. But the fact is that it is only for a minority of people, but it operates on the backs of the majority in order to survive.

But isn't that what the free market is all about, anyhow? :-)

John, I agree with your first paragraph almost entirely. But I am not sure what to infer from your second. Let me see if this is your point: I�m confident in my profession and the company I represent; therefore, I should allow all these misconceptions, false statements and remarks that could be discouraging and demoralizing to those parties who read these posts to just go unchallenged? And I would do this because since I am confident and have �made it� I now no longer should care about those who haven�t made it?

Is that what you�re implying?

I�m here defending it for two reasons. First because the company, the products and the people involved in this business don�t deserve to be maligned so viciously. And second, because this site shows up in a Google search which means people who are researching Arbonne are stumbling upon it. They deserve to get a clear picture and a passionate defense from someone who is confident, as you say, in his/her chosen profession and company so that they make a decision about their future from an informed position and are not dissuaded by ignorance or fear or cynicism. The time I spend doing so is MY time; Which, last time I checked, is still mine to do with as I please.

Joel,
Two and a half years ago I probably would not have disagreed with anything you said. My impression of MLM was probably similar to yours and replete with anecdotal examples to back that impression up. Interestingly, in light of Anthony John�s post, most of the complaints I heard about MLM came from people who had been involved with Amway specifically. Maybe because Amway was the biggest and best known early on, but I�ve never encountered anyone who was turned off by Mary Kay, Pampered Chef, Longaberger Baskets or Prepaid Legal. I�m sure there were some but, by and large, the people I come into contact who describe negative experiences, such as you describe, were involved with Amway. But I�m not making a judgment about Amway. I only mention it to make a point. And that is this. The impressions you have, and impressions many others have, may be indeed based on real life experiences. I have no doubt of that. But the business and personalities you describe does not reflect at all my experience with Arbonne; which is what this thread was about. If it�s turning into a debate about the merits, or lack of merit, of Network Marketing then so be it. But that becomes a much more emotional, complex and difficult debate. Therefore, I will only speak for Arbonne.

My only comment in response to what you posted above is to say that while much of what you say is probably correct, at least as it applies to some people, it applies to almost any business one might involve themselves in, MLM or not. MOST people who go into business for themselves are not qualified or properly prepared, nor do they have the right demeanor or charisma to be successful. The statistics on small business failures are horrendous. Over 60% of small business fail within the first 3 years and over 75% don�t make it past 5 years. But does that mean going into business is ALWAYS a failing proposition? Or that the 25% who can make it work should not open their business? I guess you�d have us all go work for the government in some capacity? (Actually, I know you wouldn�t suggest that.)

Yes, you�re right that not everyone will succeed at MLM. The reasons are as varied as the personalities of those who try. But it is possible to succeed and as long as it demonstrated to be possible, people who believe they can succeed should have the right to try. And if they fail, or quit, which many do, I would hope that they would learn from it rather than spend the rest of their lives mired in anger and bitterness. I�m often amazed that some people seem to think there is a guarantee to success; that without effort, education, apprenticeship, diligence, patience and fortitude that they are entitled to have everything go just right. I know, people are sometimes lied to and made to believe success in a business endeavor will be easy, and that�s a shame. It happens in other businesses besides MLM. But really� people need to exercise a little common sense, do the due diligence and go about their business accepting that their success is entirely dependent on their own efforts and ability and that being in business, ANY business, is not always easy. And failure, though frustrating and often humiliating, is not the end of the world. It is an opportunity to grow. You can�t pump people up. Oh, you can for an hour or two, but this is why MLM is so hard for many. It�s a personal development program first and foremost. Many people who get into it just aren�t willing to work it and just as many people, unfortunately, are either unwilling to change and become the person they need to be to attract people into their business, or they have a blind spot that prevents them from seeing where they need to grow and improve. We often tell people considering Arbonne opportunity that the business is not complicated, but it may be the hardest thing you�ve ever done.

The other thing that I find to be problematic about your comments as it relates to motive is the simple fact that, at least in my experience, the people who are motivated by greed and selfishness are NOT the ones who are succeeding. The people I know (and of course they are all in Arbonne) who are successful are those people who approach this business with the idea that they are there to help others succeed for the long term. The key to this business is being ATTRACTIVE to those who you want to look at the business opportunity. People who demonstrate the UNattractive characteristics you described rarely get anywhere and especially not in network marketing.

Okay...I have to ask. What did Arbonne do to you Kate, that causes you to express the bitter cynicism and sarcasm that you do? Frankly, I think Ed would be interested more in someone whose talents and intellect extend beyond cooking and cleaning, so don�t hold your breath for him to contact you.

Shirles...I didn't call you a cynic because you decided not to do Arbonne. I admire you for realizing it�s not for you if you felt it wasn�t right. I called you a cynic for this line specifically: �Selling over priced skincare (albeit great skincare) to my friends and pressuring them to get involved, so I can move up the proverbial "ladder" of success, so I CAN have financial freedom is just a little too deceitful.�
That is cynicism on display. �Overpriced�, �pressuring�, �deceitful�. Those are your subjective opinions and not the experience of anyone I know in Arbonne nor the response I get from anyone who we�ve introduced to the product or the business. I just don�t understand why you label it that way simply because you decided it isn�t right for you. Your tone displays an anger and bitterness and resentment that is unfortunate. I wish you well.

MLMs are awkard and annoying. If you are in one, please leave your friends and family alone. Especially do not tap in to your "warm" church market.

The main reason I say this is because the bulk of those that get in to MLMs will not make it and will bail out in a very short period of time. Thus, for NOTHING they have alieanated friends and family - causing them to screen your phone calls and scramble to avoid awkward conversations and bad (or frivolous at best) business deals.

BOTTOM LINE: In order to succeed you will HAVE to sell beyond your "warm" market anyway. So, try leaving them alone and avoid the heartache. Start w/ hard work, beat the streets, and see if you've got what it takes!

What is pups

I became a consultant today. I am excited about sharing this terrific product and awesome opportunity to achieve some financial freedom. I don't want to alienate friends and family and am finding that if I just hint to them that I am embarking on a new adventure, they are immediately curious and want to know more. I tell them I will give them some of the products and let them see for themselves. They know I have no intention of becoming the "Avon Lady" and I don't want to have parties or such. I am hoping that I can succeed, but I have to be honest and say I am a little nervous about finding my 4 or 5 people to buy in.

I was mistaken perhaps a teaching profession would better suit you...I started reading your post and decided not to finish. I can't beat your words...so let's just let others make the choice. I think you should be a poster boy for Arbonne.
And BTW we are still laughing...your wit and intellect proves beyond me so I will just leave it at that.

Fair enough Shirles. My intention is not to beat you, or anybody. My intention is only to point out that before people lob insults and accusations; unsubstantiated insults and accusations I should add; they should consider what their motivation really is. I think there are legitimate questions, misunderstandings, misconceptions or misinformation that deserve to be aired�.debated if necessary�and answered in a way that won�t offend anybody. When people post questions or comments in a way that displays a genuine interest or curiosity with the desire to be informed, I hope I can help, along with others who wish to comment as well. But if you want to just sling mud and denigrate well intentioned individuals because somehow it makes you feel better about yourself or your situation, then I won�t hesitate to call you on it.

And FYI Shirles, I�d never be happy in the teaching profession because the vast majority of people really don�t want to learn anything new. They�re much happier wallowing in their ignorance, oddly enough. The ones who are truly motivated to learn and improve often don�t need teachers. They�re almost always capable of learning on their own. I hope you are inspired to be the motivated kind.

I give up. I am VP marketing/sales for Arbonne. Arbonne sucks.

Hi Mike. Your question is a good one and I understand your concern. I should first say that my response is going to be based on my experience with Arbonne only. As I�ve said earlier, I have never been involved with any other network marketing company. The reason was mostly because I had not found a company that offered a product that I liked enough to sell. You have to love your product, believe it offers a solution to needs your customer has and represents at a good value. In my opinion, is HAS to be a product you would buy for yourself, even if there was no opportunity attached to it. Your experience with Excel is a perfect example. The product was not unique and you probably would not have purchased it from them if there was no opportunity attached to it. For me, I wouldn�t have gotten involved either. In fact, someone recently asked me to look at some network company offering internet phone service. I�m not interested. It�s not a product I want, it�s not unique, and if it is such a big deal the competition will be fierce and eventually the big boys, like Verizon, will dominate the market.

Having said that, I like to think of a new Arbonne consultant as, not at the bottom, but at the TOP of their own organization. If you come into the business wishing to build a full time income, then you have to think of yourself as the leader of the team you are eventually going to build. You start by learning from your sponsor how to sell the products and then you get into the activity of doing so. Then you learn to recruit. People who also love the products and respect you will see the opportunity potential and will join you if you invite them and they are so inclined. Then you need to learn how to train and ultimately how to inspire. It�s a process that every Arbonne consultant must go through. Eventually you have duplicated yourself in others and they go on to do the same.

As I go thru this process, the people above me benefit from my efforts, but I have benefited from their experience, training, inspiration, example, etc. Their success has made it easier for me to be successful just as my experience and success with make it easier for those on MY team to be successful. The benefit those above me get is directly related to the investment they make in me, because in Arbonne, I�m not required to buy anything each month. And that point is huge. If my organization doesn�t do anything then those above me don�t get paid either. In Arbonne no one is locked in to a monthly purchase that keeps filling up the garage and enriching those above and that�s why we never felt like we were �at the bottom�.

As far as the Institute thing goes, I think we covered it. I'm not sure what "half truth" you're taking about so I wouldn't even know what to say.

What an informative site! I am currently considering becoming a consultant for a couple of reasons. First, I love quality skin care and feel I can easily promote it. I get lots of open doors when people compliment me on my skin (so that�s good!). Secondly, I am a top performer at my current company but there is a really, really thick glass ceiling which is frustrating.

I understand that there are different ways to sign up. I would want to sign up under the best deal with the broadest options. I would like any advice as to what is the best sign-up plan for someone that is serious about selling. Lastly, it is possible to have a joint partnership with someone (like a family member?). I have a dual plan that could be awesome.

I look forward to receiving some feedback from some of you Top Performers out there!

Thanks!

KJ, You're correct! I hadn't read the inside cover but, while I'm no expert, I would agree with your discovery of an error. Somebody in the graphics department messed up. It's a shame too because it's a great looking cover, don't you think?

Wow..Bill, I felt like I was reading someone�s suicide note. Cheer up buddy. America is the land of opportunity. Not ONE opportunity; lots of opportunity. You can make your own opportunity if you don�t like what you find available. I take issue enough to comment on only two things. (Although, I could write a book if I had the time.) First, while I think all Arbonne women (and men) are beautiful for many more reasons than their appearance, not every VP is a drop-dead gorgeous model type. I would say that 90% would be flattered by your comments but literally laughing at your characterization at the same time. Hey..but if you scrolled through all the pictures I�m glad you to know you think I�m married to a super model. I�ll have to tell my wife some guy thinks she�s hot. (BTW - The other 10% ARE drop dead gorgeous; a fact that has not escaped my notice either. )

Secondly, I�ve never been to a rah-rah type convention, meeting or any such thing. Yeah, maybe other companies do that, but please don�t associate it with Arbonne. It just doesn�t happen that way. That Arbonne is a company devoted to personal improvement is no doubt. But they�re certainly not trying to accomplish it through cheerleading. It doesn�t work. They know that.

Also, to Kpat and Mic above: I�d gladly comment on your posts but I feel like this has become a conversation between me and the rest of the non-Arbonne world. I never intended to dominate this thread and I�m sure some wish I would go away. So I�m not ignoring your questions. If you ask I�ll give you my 2-cents worth but I�d like to see if anyone else has some comments to answer you.

Wow, I have been trying to sell Arbonne for 4 months. I have now purchased $3000 + in puppy dog kits, (but of course Arbonne discourages front-loading, yeah right) and have not been successful. I have signed up 10 consultants, and made the person who signed me up into a district manager....great, what about me....I have read everything, listened to the CD's, done Arbonne U, gone to every meeting...Great people make money, not very many!!!

id, I�m sorry to hear that you�re having a difficult time. I encourage you to talk regularly, every day if need be, with your sponsor or upline VP, (since you're sponser is fairly new as well), to see if they can help you identify areas where you could use help or a change in strategy. And be sure you're open and willing to being coached. My advice though is to not get discouraged too easily. Four months is not a long time. It seems long because the rapid growth of the company is helping propel many to advance at record pace, but it was not that long ago that getting to District in year was considered the norm. Remain positive and focus on activity, not on results.

Mic, I won�t comment on how good other companies are compared to Arbonne. I will suggest two things that may help though. I�m repeating something I wrote earlier, but consider these questions when choosing: 1) Is the company financially sound? 2) Do they have a strong and competent management team? 3) Do they offer consumable products? 4) Have they been in business at least 5 years? 5) Are the products unique? 6) Are they priced right? 7) Would you purchase their product even if you weren't doing the business? 8) Is there a large and growing market with demand for the product? 9) Is the compensation plan fair and based on rewarding productivity in sales of products?
If the companies you�re looking at stand up equally to those questions, then I would choose based on which product or service you can be most passionate about. If you love your product and believe in it, you�ll be a far more effective ambassador for it. I hope that helps some.

Back to the orchid extract and the error on the catalogue cover photo and the error inside the cover that describes the wrong orchid and gets the name of the extract wrong (or perhaps it was a typo).

What bugs me is this: I want to help out my consultant friend, but before I shell out the money for Arbonne products and switch from what I've been very happy using, I want to know what I'm getting. So I'm doing a little research. And for me, a lay person with a basic knowledge of orchid culture and botany, to spot an error like this makes me leery. The company makes such a big deal about its natural ingredients and botanicals that it bothers me that it didn't get this right. Maybe someone just fell down in their proofreading. But right now I'm not inclined to buy the products. Sorry.

KJ, I find it doubtful that a proofreader had anything to do with this error. It was probably the hundreds of scientists and white coats at the Swiss "institute" that got it wrong.

Whaddya mean there's no brick and mortar institute in Switzerland???

I'VE GOT PICTURES OF PEOPLE IN THE INSTITUTE!

Or was that the institution??? Hmmmmm...

God Bless,

Mike

Well, basic errors like this, especially in such a high-profile spot, come across as careless or, worse, not very knowledgeable about botanicals and natural extracts. I feel bad about not helping my friend and want her to be successful, but I have some reservations.

You know, KJ, your last statement made me think of something else... They are BANKING on the fact that you WILL feel guilty if you don't purchase from a friend or family member. That is the bottom line of most, if not all, sales tactics. Well, that and ignorance. I'd say the products might be worth it but all this deceit and sales crap is slowly but surely turning my stomach.

Hi Julia...
I only sound angry and defensive when the comments of some are intended to disparage people who don�t deserve it and when those comments have no basis in fact. I just find it amazing that people are willing to make up their minds about something on the basis of false information. But not only make up their minds�.they then go on to participate in a discussion on the subject as if they are experts and that no matter what the evidence to the contrary�.they insist they are right! Such arrogance is amazing. (The real fun comes when they think so high of themselves that they try to funny.) If I was standing on the street corner insisting that World War II never happened and that it was all made up, you�d label me a fool. There are witnesses and photographs and evidence to the contrary. My parents lived thru it. Therefore such an opinion would be folly. But those critical of Arbonne say all kinds of things that are untrue and you readily give them your respect. People who you don�t even know! Yet your friend, who admittedly was clumsy in her contact with you, immediately causes you to be disappointed and disheartened; bitter and angry. Why not look at it as her admiring and respecting YOU so much that she thought of you when she discovered something that presented a great opportunity? If I found out where to buy a new car for half the price and I knew you needed a car, but I didn�t tell you about it, wouldn�t you be upset with me once you found out?

I understand that people make emotional decisions about things. I�m only trying to point out to people that if they have an issue with Arbonne then try to discover the FACTS and base an opinion on the facts. And if they are offended by Arbonne, somebody involved with Arbonne, or something specific about the products, then don�t get involved, stay away from that person and don�t use the product. It doesn�t matter. But to take up an offense against something that is not negatively affecting your life, unless you allow it to, is just a waste of energy. There are far more important things in the world to get all burned up over than Arbonne. (Do me a favor Mike�get this angry at the lack of security at our borders and start investing your time writing to your Congressman instead of this site.)

And Julia, as far as the whole Swiss thing goes, if you�re going to allow that to get in your way than just forget Arbonne. Why so bitter about it? I tried to explain that whole thing with Ed. He was right that Arbonne did not have its own facility registered in Switzerland under the name Arbonne or AIRD. But it doesn�t change the fact that Arbonne products are formulated and tested in Switzerland under the coordination of the AIRD team. A lot of companies do business by utilizing facilities owned by other companies and Arbonne utilizes the facilities that are owned by larger organizations while they pursue their own facility. All those companies that LEASE space in Manhattan office buildings, are they not real? The fact is it�s cheaper to rent an office than to build an office building and it�s the same for Arbonne. Up until recently Arbonne did not have the resources to build their own state of the art lab so they leased someone else�s. What�s the big deal? Just like the Donald Trumps of the world build office buildings to provide office space for lease, there are companies that build research facilities to make available for lease. You can�t find any Arbonne document that claims they OWN a lab in Switzerland.

And to Mike, I tried to answer your concerns in an honest and cordial manner. What damages has Arbonne caused you and why the bitterness? Why do you have the desire to waste your time on the subject if you have no genuine interest? Your comments are not going to derail Arbonne�s success if that�s your goal in life�and neither will an unfortunate error in the catalog.

And as for me being bitter. I'm nothing of the sort. Not with Arbonne anyway. I've only heard good about the company. I guess I am indeed bitter at my pastor's wife. But that is just because of HER actions. And I'm not acting like I'm an Arbonne expert nor am I hopping on anyone's bash-Arbonne-bandwagon. I'm just participating in poking a little fun at those so over-the-top enthusiastic about a facewash. And you're right, Dave, I definitely think that I was approached because of the potential opportunity but given the circumstances, it was COMPLETELY inappropriate. There's more to the story on that subject but it is irrelevant to these discussions. I was just wanting to hear both sides instead of the one-sided fantastic opportunity ahead of me. Biometics anyone? I'm a distributor.
Thanks for your input though Dave. I definitely think you should lighten up. Don't feel so threatened. And thanks for your humor Mike. The world is lacking...
Dog sselb

Sorry Mike, You�re wrong again. I admitted to Ed that I thought Arbonne had a proprietary lab in Switzerland that would be locatable by a specific address listed to their name. I was under a misconception that Arbonne had a permanent place for AIRD to function. When I found out that they have utilized different facilities over the years and that they are not registered in Switzerland as a separate entity, but are employing the use of established researchers to operate under license from Arbonne in facilities devoted solely to Arbonne business, I admitted I had drawn a wrong conclusion. But nothing Arbonne said contributed to that misconception. The fact that Ed was disputing was whether they conduct their research and testing in Switzerland, and they do.

And I�m not angry either, Bud. Perplexed, incredulous, dumbfounded�maybe.

I�m not the one who has been duped and I don�t respond because it offers any benefit to me. As I said several times now, I respond only so those who find this board who have yet to make a decision about how best to pursue fulfilling their dreams are not duped by those who enjoy displaying their prejudice and ignorance so nastily. (As well as their lack of talent in comedy, I might add.)

That's what I mean, Dave. You can be kind of not very nice. These aren't personal attacks on you for crying out loud - it's personal opinion about a company. Geez. Why do you turn them into personal attacks? Just wondering... Your posts would be fine if it weren't for the mean comments at the end.

Dave, great advice, thanks.

WHAT'S WRONG WITH MULTI-LEVEL MARKETING?

GREAT LINK!!!

http://www.vandruff.com/mlm.html

Read it. Live it. Love it.

Hey Dave.

"...nothing Arbonne said contributed to that misconception..."

Yeah, you completely drew that conclusion on your own.

Pfffffft.

Dave? Dave. DAVE!

Wake up. You're lying to yourself now.

You keep saying you have nothing to lose in this discussion. BS. You have $25,000 a month to lose if people start doubting the validity of Arbonne.

Ed said:
To me, Arbonne's intent is crystal clear... and to me, their intent is deception. As I have said before, I have no complaint against their products because I have only used one or two and I could not possibly form an opinion based on that small amount of exposure.

Additionally, I have no complaint against the fact that they use network marketing to sell their product. Whatever I may think of that type of marketing, it is a legal reality and certainly here to stay.

My whole problem is that Arbonne represents themselves as a Swiss company with a laboratory in Switzerland and that is simply not the case.

How funny that you are atteptiing to misrepresent his posts when anyone can scroll up and find them.

You really are too much.

BTW,

God Bless,

Mike

Folks,

The bottom line is that some people always make money at MLM, but many, many do not. MLMs all say they are "different" but they are all fundamentally the same. "Oh, but THIS ONE is DIFFERENT!" Different from what? And why so important to be different? (Not different like "unique," but "not like the others.") I'll let ya'll answer that one for yourselves. MLM is MLM.

In my (only)previous posting, I said that some folks "have it" whatever the paticular "it" is that makes good sales people, and some don't--like Michael Jordan had "it" to be one of the greatest basketball players. There are speciifc talents, sometimes even specific to the particular product to be sold. However, I didn't accuse anyone of being lazy or "unlikeable." This goes to my point about the terminally cheerful "successes" who degrade the rest of us for being "losers." If not making a load of cash and not driving a $100,000 car constitutes a loser, then there is a whole bucketfull of us!----And I am not suicidal.

Bill

Bill, I didn�t say you were suicidal. I said your post sounded like a suicide note because it was very depressing and defeatist in its tone. Because we�re all not able to play basketball like Michael Jordan, does that mean we should not play at all? It would be a very boring NBA if only Michael Jordan types were allowed to play. Because a certain Harvard med school grad doesn�t become the best brain surgeon in the world mean that he/she should just give up surgery, or even medicine altogether? Come on. You�re smarter than that. We all can�t be the best, but many of are capable of becoming more than we think if we�d just dedicate ourselves to the task. And yes..I do think Arbonne is different. You might agree if you focused on the facts instead of your assumptions.

You're right MIPUS. I should be. But I do a lot of work from my computer and it's hard not to keep checking to see what's next. In a few weeks we go to Hawaii, thanks to Arbonne, so I know I'll stay away then.

Oy Vey! Didn't I tell you people to get a life! Ha! I come back to this site every now and again when I need a laugh! And I AM an Arbonne Consultant!

Look, I know people who have succeeded at this business and are driving their Mercedes and getting significant checks in the mail every month. And I know people who have failed or dropped out b/c it wasn't for them.

To each his own! Stop taking everything so seriously and stop trying to convince people to go one way or the other! Can't anyone make up their mind by themselves anymore??? Geez...

Dave,
Thanks for your encouragement. I am a firm believer that the recipe for success starts out with a healthy dose of hard work, blended with consistent efforts, tenacity and drive. Twenty years of marketing has taught me that the only way you are going to get business is to ask for it. Sam Walton was quoted as saying "If you don't invite them, then they won't come." My plan is to ask as many people that I know to try the products, not just friends and family, but business contacts, neighbors, my hairdresser, the staff in the orthodontist office, the girls on the tennis courts...anywhere where they know my name and I know theirs. And if they don't know my name, they're gonna know before I leave. That's networking - plain and simple. One person may not be interested - but hey, they know three others who are. It is not easy, you have to be thick skinned and take rejection. This is not news to you, but others who take pleasure in scoffing at a positive attitude have obviously only suffered defeat. I have felt the agony of defeat and many times did not get back up and fight for it. I believe that there is a need for healthier lifestyles and we should be proactive in our health and in our wealth.

All of the crass responses and the "get a life" comments are quite reflective of their own inadequacies and perhaps they just wish they had even half a life!

My life, by the way, is quite fulfilling and very successful. I am blessed with a wonderful husband and a beautiful daughter. My decision to become an Arbonne Consultant was based on studying the numbers, talking with successful people in Arbonne and obtaining a plan of action that has been proven to work over and over again. This website did not make my decision for me - but I do find it very interesting to read and felt compelled to comment. My plan of action for August is to focus on moving forward and growing this business. With a lot of prayer and support from my upline, friends and family - I will succeed. Wish me luck!

Whoa Addie... I, too, am a consultant. And I have stood on the sidelines for much of the debate. But I have to speak up about your comments.

Your tone towards those who have a JOB (as you put it) is extremely condescending. There are plenty of wonderful people who LOVE what they do, and whose worth is NOT determined by who they work for. I know of many teachers who would like to supplement their income with Arbonne, but it doesn't meant they would give up their passion of teaching. Same goes for many other occupations.

I must confess that it is this "superior" attitude that turns many people off to MLMers and MLM companies. You are becoming the very thing that many on this thread have said to watch out for.

May I just caution you to reexamine what it is that motivates you. If you are measuring your worth by how much money you make, I'm afraid your scale is unreliable.

Joel

Dave,

No offense taken. I'm glad you enjoy my blog. :-)

As I stated in my original post, I AM an Arbonne consultant. I'm not working the biz because I just am not jazzed about selling skin care products. My Internet business keeps me busy enough and affords me the independence that I desire.

I live in Arbonne Central, the hotspot for the Arbonne craze. There are more white cars in my area than anywhere else in the world. And the people that I know who are working it are doing very well... not all of them... some are struggling. But those who are succeeding are REALLY succeeding.

I have nothing against Arbonne's products. My wife swears by the RE9 stuff. I still think the stifle creativity and are absolutely unfair (and not just a bit goofy) about their Internet policies.

Oh, one more thing. My wife will frequently have to tell me something a dozen times in order for me to get it. So perhaps I am a moron after all. ;-)

Joel

Hey, I have had a rude awakening to arbonne...sales people have "infiltrated" our church...it has caused division. I don't think the product is all that bad, but if people are being able to be paid 3,000to 10,000 a month....come on...think..it is over priced! The heavy recruitment is horrible and it has "changed" many of the women involved.

I thought I was done w/this but the whole church division thing struck a chord with me. It's a no brainer that Arbonne doesn't cause churches to divide literally. But the truth is that MLM tells you to seek out family/friends/church members to hock your product on and THAT is what leads to division. Arbonne sales has no place infiltrating churches no more than any OTHER product. You wouldn't come in and start pushing a sell from Pier 1 on a church member or friend, no matter how good a deal it was! You would tell them about it and hope they would understand the good deal but if they decided they didn't NEED or WANT it, you would move on. With Arbonne (and any MLM), it takes PERSISTANCE and PUSHING to get people to "understand" how wonderful the product is and then an even bigger push to get them on board so others can start making money (including themselves eventually). But that inevitably puts a strain on relationships no matter what kind they are, be it a marriage, friendship, or casual acquaintance. It's just sad is what it is because I can see this leading to a breakdown w/me and the person who is pushing for me to hop on board. It's just unfortunate.. That's all there is to it.

i've done home parties for years, and the only way to make money is to recruit recuit recruit. it's not about the "sharing the experience" and the "wonderful products", it's about the money! No one does this for fun . . . it's hard work with little reward. People are brainwashed into believing they will make tons of money ... when only 2% of people are making the big money the average comm. check is $201. THAT'S THE AVERAGE! So what's the high $ and what's the low $?

Perfect point, Kinger. That is EXACTLY what's going on here. It's just another scheme that can make some people very wealthy, but certainly not everyone.

But Julia...how is that different from any OTHER organization? I mentioned my friend the Senior Vice President; his income with salary, bonuses and stock options, is over $500 thousand per year. He's getting wealthy..but most who work for his company are only earning an hourly wage and they have no chance at all of reaching his level. And that's the case at EVERY corporation you can name.

Meet Dave Zug... the objective voice of Arbonne.

http://www.arbonne.com/people/eoa2.php?vp=zug_dnvp
http://members.aol.com/debanddavezug/intro2.html
http://www.dzug.myarbonne.com/arbonne/dzug.nsf

Objective indeed...
(but apparently successful, yah?)

Wow. I think I'm going to print this off to show to my Arbonne shadow to get them off my freaking back.

Thanks for keeping it real.

Dave,

I find it telling that your best response it to dismiss what I have posted as not worth responding to. It's becoming evident that's the standard response to any valid argument against MLM. I'll recognize that as an admission that I've hit pretty close to the mark.

Can you really be serious in your pointing out that others have already mentioned some of the arguments I presented? How many times have you posted to this blog? It's likely much of what you've posted came from some Arbonne sales aid, or some motivational MLM success book. I can see YOU read the chapter on the importance of repetition in sales. Everything you've said has a familiar ring to anyone who's been to a "party". Remember Dave, people were making these same arguments to validate those old evil MLMs of the past long before the "new and improved, now with more opportunity" Arbonne came along.

I happen to have a successful freelance business with skills I learned while working at a previous job. I'd be happy to talk to you about how I've found success, but it will cost you $29 to find out what it is. Oh, and I'd really recommend (but not require) you hire me at least once to show me you're really serious.
On the one hand you paint a bleak picture of success in any other endeavor, but then you counsel those struggling with Arbonne by telling them that no business succeeds without hard work and financial investment.

Aside from being an obvious diversion, the comparison to gambling really isn't a relevant response to what I posted. There are more differences in the ways potential gamblers are solicited than similarities as compared to Arbonne... and certainly more Federal regulation. But again, I've heard that comparison before as well.

I don't have an axe to grind Dave. But I've noticed that it's another pattern in your posts to accuse someone of having an agenda if they don't agree with you. If I've never been an Arbonne consultant, then I can't know what I'm talking about... and if I was one and didn't succeed, I have a bitter agenda.
If there is some organized movement seeking to further regulate MLM's, why? Maybe because there is a history of exploitation? Remember, I have nothing to sell and stand to gain in no way from sharing my views. So who's really interested in people's best interests here?

...and if a relative of mine ever tries to "sponsor" me to become a Lottery consultant so that I can distribute "opportunities" to get rich, you might just see me in a gambling blog. LOL.

Yes..C&D..Feel free to convince yourself that what you said was so amazingly profound that I couldn�t respond to it. I was so traumatized by your intellect and �valid arguments� that I could find nothing to say. Go ahead and believe that if it�ll make your day.

The fact is I didn�t respond because 90% of what you wrote HAD been answered to some degree before. Sorry to burst your bubble. I know you�re shocked. Like most of the complaints�.there�s rarely anything new and yours weren�t any different.

I find it so interesting; the strange logic you and your supporters cling to. First, you complain I spend too much time responding [because I�m so full of fear of course.] But then, when I decide it�s pointless to waste my time on the same canned [and lame] complaints�all of a sudden it�s because I can�t think of anything to say! �Why did I not bother to respond?� you wonder. �Can he be serious that my arguments have been made before?� �How dare he!� you proclaim! �Well, it was because I�ve been defeated by your superior intellect and analysis!� I concede. �I am no match for you, it is plain to see!� Oh yeah�and of course my dismissal of your incredible �valid arguments� is the standard tactic of the �evil� (your word) MLM Empire and their co-conspirators. After all, I�ve been lying all the time! Maybe your ego was bruised that I didn�t fawn all over your post and concede you�re right and discontinue my association with the business. I�m sorry. I didn�t realize you were so sensitive. (BTW, can you show me a lie? Anybody?)

How amazing that you failed at Arbonne. Explain to those reading exactly how the company or the products caused your failure; a company that has doubled its sales 3 years in a row. It�s not like they aren�t selling anything. But, it obviously could not have been you. You�re much too smart, so it HAD to be the company. Somebody told you that you should buy some catalogs�was that the reason?

You know, repeating the concepts and truths about self improvement and success that have been passed down from those more capable than I is not new. I would guess MOST of what you know in life you learned from someone else. (Well, maybe not in your case, I forgot, you�re a genius.) These same ideas are taught in most organizations where people becoming the best they can be is a desired goal. I do not see anywhere that I painted a �bleak� picture of success in any other endeavor. I may have painted a bleak picture of IMPROVING YOUR LIFESTYLE if you do NOTHING. Do you know of a business that succeeds without hard work or ANY financial investment? Name one. You can�t. (I�m still waiting for your alternative to network marketing.) Your comments are a distortion and if you were so smart you�d know that. But then they were meant to be a distortion. I DO get that for sure. Frankly, I don�t care about your success in your free lance business. Good for you, seriously. But I know this about you. You�re petty, vindictive and insulting and for no good reason. I did you no wrong yet you felt it was your mission in life to �expose� my identity. I don�t really care, but why did you feel compelled to do that? There�s only one reason. To get even in some way. Did you have fun investigating? Did it give you a thrill to think you might upset me or do me harm with that cleverness? You characterize my comments as being copied from some manual. Why, because in your pettiness you thought that would make what I�ve said here worthless. You can�t be one way one this blog and another way in real life. It�s easy to see why you failed or gave up.

See�I don�t care about your success (if it�s real) because it is MEANINGLESS to me; and everyone else. What you do means nothing because no one can duplicate it. (Oh� that�s right, I forgot; unless they give you some money. Now THERE�S an example of money being thrown away for sure.) What my family has accomplished IS relevant. In case you missed it, this board was about ARBONNE. You come along and it�s supposed to be about YOUR amazing experiences?

And, since you didn�t figure this one out yourself and need help with these things, the analogy about gambling wasn�t for the purpose of comparing the business models. It was for exposing your motives. In other words, there are far more ways for people to lose their money which are vastly more unjust and unprofitable, yet you have no axe to grind with them. You�re mad because YOU failed and you hate to look at yourself in the mirror and see a failure looking back, so of course�lay the blame elsewhere. Classic. (I know..it�s a �classic tactic� to call you a failure. Truth hurts though, doesn�t it? But I�m trying to figure out how I contributed to your failure.) You should read this book by Larry Winget. It�s called �Shut Up, Stop Whining & Get A Life�; But I�m sure you�d argue with him too. The truth of your failure is probably closer to something like this: You wanted the big money; you craved the big money; entertained in your mind the big money. But when it didn�t happen as fast or as easy as you thought it would, rather than try to learn and do better, you quit in anger and bitterness. Am I close? You�ll deny it, but it�s clear anyway.

And, Kinger�yes, you have me stunned too. You�re too smart for me. Do me a favor though. Divide 7 into 100. When you find a calculator and come up with that number, that�s the number of people under you that you need to be fairly successful with Arbonne. Do you think that number is overwhelmingly impossible? Apparently, C&D found it to be so. Oh and nice tactic on your part, Kinger. Call me a liar because I chose to respond to C&D�s nonsense. A very intellectual argument you make with that one.

You both have nothing new to say. And what you said was not as brilliant as you believe it to be. For those reading I do not apologize for my indignation. It�s warranted. Arbonne is indeed a worthy cause, for your sake, that you should not be persuaded to ignore by those who have no interest in your condition and have nothing of lasting value to offer. The status quo may be fine for them, but if you dream bigger dreams you can make them come true. If you believe you can succeed you will! Smarter and more accomplished people than I said that, but my repeating it DOES NOT invalidate those truths. And I�m not just preaching that, I�m living it. It works if you do.

Henry Ford: �If you think you can, you can. And if you think you can't, you're right.�

Robert F. Kennedy: Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly.

Theodore Roosevelt: It is not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbled, or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes short again and again, who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, and spends himself in a worthy cause, who at best knows achievement and who at the worst if he fails at least fails while daring greatly so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat.

Know this as well: Robert Kiyosaki, Best selling author of �Rich Dad, Poor Dad� & �Cash Flow Quadrant� (and certainly smarter than the unknown C&D), says this about Network Marketing:

�After I dropped my prejudices and began researching network marketing, I found that there were many people who were sincerely and diligently building successful network marketing businesses. When I met these people, I saw the impact their business had on other people�s lives and financial futures. I began to truly appreciate the value of the network marketing system.�

C&D�
You amaze me, you really do. YOU started out attacking yet you deny that? No, you don�t. You said that I�m �attacking the attacker.� So you acknowledge you were the attacker first. But in case you�re not convinced let�s look at your very first post which was clearly an attack; on me, then on Arbonne and on network marketing in general. When I responded to your attack then of course I became the one at fault. I�m afraid you�re the one using the typical cheap tactics of those with a weak argument, yet you can�t see it. So here�s the evidence and then I�m going to enjoy my weekend.

Here�s the very first thing you said: (like we need to repeat over and over)
�Clearly you stand to gain through the pyramidal structure as more people continue to join Arbonne . [AND OF COURSE MY GAIN IS IMMORAL, IS THE IMPLICATION. BECAUSE �PYRAMIDAL STRUCTURES� DON�T EXIST ANYWHERE ELSE.] So you have a vested interest in defending the "opportunity" here as not to taint the potential downline. [I HAVE AN ULTERIOR MOTIVE TO PROTECT MY SELFISH, GREEDY INTERESTS] The success of any MLM depends wholly on a uninformed population. [YOU SHOULD HAVE USED �STUPID� INSTEAD OF UNINFORMED BECAUSE THAT�S CLEARLY WHAT YOU MEANT. PEOPLE AREN�T UNINFORMED BY YOUR ACCOUNT. THEY ARE DECIEVED.] The last thing you want to see is a forum where people can learn that what you're going to tell them may not be true. [I�M DELIBERATELY LYING AND AFRAID I�LL BE FOUND OUT] Which explains why you never seem to have said enough to make your point. [I TALK TOO MUCH AND THAT�S A CRIME] You literally can't afford not to respond to any negative comment posted here.� [YOU THINK I�M SO FEARFUL OF YOUR INCREDIBLE INSIGHTS]
Do I need to go on? There�s certainly more to your attack. Unsolicited attack I should add. Of course this AFTER you revealed my identity. You haven�t explained that one yet. And I�m still waiting for an intelligent response to what business you can run successfully without hard work or an investment. As well as the alternative to network marketing. No attacks there. Legitimate questions you can�t answer. But I digress.
So what was my response, �attack� as you call it? To indicate I thought your criticisms had be pretty much dealt with. I complimented you on how nicely you regurgitated the same arguments, but you missed that I guess. I just didn�t feel like going point by point on everything from why you need business aids to how products are developed and where. So you took offense to that and claimed: �I find it telling that your best response it[s] to dismiss what I have posted as not worth responding to. [NOT ACCEPTING MY REASON FOR NOT RESPONDING AND CLEARLY FINDING THAT INSULTING TO YOUR EGO] It's becoming evident that's the standard response to any valid argument against MLM. [AND I TAKE IT YOUR RESPONSE IS NOT STANDARD? AND WHO JUDGED YOUR ARGUMENTS TO BE VALID? OH RIGHT�YOU DID. BUT MORE TO THE POINT, I NEED TO USE A �STANDARD RESPONSE� BECAUSE I REALLY DON�T HAVE A STRONG POSITION.] I'll recognize that as an admission that I've hit pretty close to the mark.� [VERY IMPRESSED WITH YOURSELF AREN�T YOU? BUT DON�T BE TOO QUICK TO MAKE THAT �RECOGNITION�, EVEN THOUGH YOU�D LOVE TO.]
You see, C&D, I�m not hiding behind an anonymous �handle� with no valid email. IF I were lying, I would have certainly protected my identity from people like you. YES, vindictive is the right description of your actions. There�s no other explanation and you haven�t offered a better one. I�m also not blinded by perceptions that are untrue or experiences that cause me to be jealous of others. You may not like what I�ve said, but I�ve pretty much responded to legitimate questions with legitimate answers as best I can. I don�t claim to be an expert except when it comes to MY personal observations and experiences. And how have you characterized my genuine attempts to share personal experiences and observations to the benefit of others who I receive nothing from? Well�let me quote you exactly: �It's likely much of what you've posted came from some Arbonne sales aid, or some motivational MLM success book. I can see YOU read the chapter on the importance of repetition in sales. Everything you've said has a familiar ring to anyone who's been to a "party". Remember Dave, people were making these same arguments to validate those old evil MLMs of the past long before the "new and improved, now with more opportunity" Arbonne came along.�
Sounds like an attack to me. Nothing I said is legitimate because someone else said it before. I guess if I quote the Golden Rule you�d say it�s not valid because it�s been said so many times over the centuries.
Yes, I�ve been sarcastic. Yes, I�ve been unsympathetic to your complaints. Because, frankly, they are not indicative of my observations and experience and, as I have clearly shown, they were intended to diminish MY credibility and integrity as much as the industry itself. Plus, you have so casually disregarded the wisdom of hard work, self improvement and self determination. (How does that benefit anybody?)
You need another example of your blatant hypocrisy? Here it is: ��because those outside the circle are not to be believed or trusted.� But here you are, telling everyone who reads this blog, that I, being �INSIDE� the circle, should not be believed or trusted. You said that, you did. �For all your efforts to distance Arbonne from the negative aspects of other MLM companies, you cannot even avoid using the formulaic, scripted arguments previously developed by those same organizations in your defense of it.� In other words, I can�t be believed or trusted.
Okay�so what have we accomplished? We�ve illustrated C&D�s statements and motives and clearly shown she/he was the �attacker�, we�ve established C&D cannot answer my legitimate questions and we�ve shown quite plainly C&D�s hypocrisy, to name a few. And what has C&D proven? That I�m annoyed with all of that and won�t let her/him get away with it unchallenged.

Dave, I seriously think you should stop reading this blog. You are so angry that it is totally making you crazed. You have never been personally attacked. People might have something to say against Arbonne but BIG DEAL. You have plenty to say against others' professions. Move on, for crying out loud. As you have stated many times in the past, quit "wasting your time" because that is what you are doing here. People are reading this to get both sides of an argument of sorts and reading your mean-spirited replies is doing no one any good and it's working you up beyond belief. People appreciate a good rebuttal but yours are just....over the top.
I'd say... time to move on and let this sleeping dog lie.

You need to re-read the posts, Mypus. You can love Arbonne. Dave can love Arbonne. Everyone could love Arbonne for all I care but others should be able to hate it if they want to (or simply dislike it) without Dave (or anyone else) telling them they are bitter or ignorant or not successful or not driven or whatever else has been said regarding the "outsiders." I think it is wonderful that you and Dave have found such success, I really do. If you can make it work, absolutely more power to you. But there are good arguments against MLM and there is absolutely no denying that. No one is saying you can't be successful but there are concerns regarding the general foundation of ANY MLM. Big deal. Let people have their beef with Arbonne without freaking out and posting mean responses. It's just so useless. Like I said earlier, if anyone is feeling so personally rebuked on this blog, I think they should stop reading because they are confused.
Good luck to all the successful Arbonne employees and good luck to all the successful employees of other companies as well. That's what makes the world go 'round!