I tried multi level marketing before the internet existed. It is hard enough getting people to buy into your "scheme" face to face, online it is next to impossible. The schemes rely on personal relationships to grow. I was also unwilling to bug my friends and family until they think I am so irritating that they avoid me.

These companies want to have their cake and eat it too. They really don't want you to be successful. They just want to move their product.

If Arbonne's brand is so precious they shouldn't be devaluing it by using multi-level marketing.

I too am a Arbonne consultant. However, when you sign up for your account you do receive a "Policies and Procedures" manual that explains in great detail the do's and don'ts of internet advertising. It also explains about the websites that were grandfathered in prior to the rule change. As a former network marketer of another company that did not regulate their consultants websites, I can guarantee you that it is best for a company to restrict the websites allowed by their consultants. I appreciate the fact that Arbonne does make it a fair and equal playing field for all consultants. Yes, there are a few consultants that have their own personal websites. But, I've been around long enough to know some of the ones that have their own websites and know for a fact that they did not build their business by website alone. This is a people to people business and takes one on one contact to really be successful. Also, nobody is required to purchase a company website. Most of the people in my upline and on my team do not own a website. It is a personal choice and is offered to those that want one. I have had nothing but a positive experience with Arbonne and look forward to continued success!

First of all Joel, you missed the whole point of having the Arbonne web site. It is a convenient way for your customers to shop and to get referrals from Arbonne.It's not suppose to be a major marketing tool to grow your business. This company is one- on- one, face - to -face. And Pam April 12th was correct in pointing out that apparently you didn't read the rules and regulations. Everything you were complaining about is addressed in the policy manual and at the myarbonne site. Arbonne is about Swiss Skin care first and the opportunity to share that at a discount second. And a business third. It has to be a fit for you - you to be at a place in your life where you don't what to work for someone else anymore.To need that home - based busines for a tax write off or just to win a free vacation.It sounds like you were just looking for another way to make money on-line. Whoever sponsored you unfortunately did you a disservice by leading you to believe that Arbonne was the answer.Sounds like your wife likes the products and that's what Arbonne is about. Plus now you still get a discount so all isn't lost.
And Igor April 19 - sounds like you are in a cult now!
Donate major amounts of time and effort to the group - don't we do that in corp. america every day?
Uncritically accept its teachings - Heard of freedom of speech? There is no Arbonne god that will strike you down if you disagree or ask a question or choose not to do a presentation a certain way. The best thing about MLM's is that we are independent and have our own businesses. Get it?
Conform to their behavioral restrictions -
Let me tell you - I worked in a union grocery store for 18 years.You want to talk about restrictions!
Make a permanent commitment to remain involved in the company - Are you talking about Arbonne or some sick relationship you had? I don't know how having a choice to resign once a year for $15.00 to keep my wholesale account open can be misjudged as a pemanent commitment.
Please don't talk about a company that you obviously don't know the first thing about!People who don't like MLM's aren't going to understand because they aren't looking at it from the right angle. Have you every be in a rut for so long that you forgot what is was like to learn and grow and socialize with adults? Or to find a product that for the first time actually worked?! And then for a company to care about you sharing what you have found with a friend and then sends you a check? You might be on the lookout for the next get rich quick. That's not what it's about - I'm in it to better myself as a person and maybe to help some others along the way.Arbonne isn't a cult or a get rich quick. It's just a chance for some personal growth disguised as a lip-stick company. If you have a problem with that, then maybe you need some "personal growth" of your own!

I'm actually in the process of trying to decide if I want to be an Arbonne consultant or not. I've never tried MLM and have run the other way when any of my friends have invited me to any of their parties. I don't like people to pressure me to sponsor a party or give them names of 5 of my friends who might be interested in having a party. I went to an Arbonne meeting last week and was pretty impressed with the "business" aspect of it...I know it's growing very fast and I'm just wondering if I should catch the wave while it's still hot.

Joel -

Thanks for posting your story. I wanted to sell on ebay and online too, and researched first before I got into it. Thank goodness I found your page here, before I sunk any money into Arbonne. I have ZERO interest in the Party Plan of Arbonne, and the idea of MLM makes my skin crawl. But it is getting to be a popular product, and sells really well on ebay. There are a ton of people selling Arbonne on ebay, and I have to believe at least some of them have wholesale accounts and are selling against Arbonnes wishes. In fact, some have a disclaimer that says "Arbonne does not endorse products sold on Ebay" or something like that. Selling magazine subscriptions on ebay is also frowned on by the industry, but there are 1000 listings every day. I wouldn't order subscriptions any other way. I wonder how Arbonne tracks down sellers on ebay, and determines who is selling against policy? Not that I want to bother trying it now....

Arbonne seems to insist on that face to face selling aspect to sell product or sell the selling of product. That I can live with to an extent. I don't care for the multi-level marketing setup. I don't care what you call it, it is still a pyramid setup. The people down on the lower levels struggle to make money and do all of the true selling work. The higher you are in the organization the easier it is for you and the more money you make. I have met people that have invested thousand of dollars on simular setups only to have thousands of dollars of product in their garage that they cannot sell for enough money to make a profit. You can dress a pig in a suit but it is still a pig.

Arbonne is a good product, an expensive product, but still high quality. So is Amway, but they are well known for their unfair marketing setup. I want to trust in this product but I feel that they may want more to sell me product at wholesale prices than to help me earn my "Mercedes". I cannot blindly trust someone just because they tell me I should.

Just had to mention for all who are seeking info. you don't have to make a huge investment to work with Arbonne - Arbonne discourages frontloading, in otherwords, we don't buy products to sell... your customers will buy their products online (albeit through Arbonne's direct website or one approved by them) and they will be delivered directly to their door - as an Arbonne consultant you never have to stock up and then desperatly try to sell your stock - and you do not have to drive all over town dropping off product... much different from the other MLMs I've seen! So what if the website has to be approved by them?? You simply pass the url on to your customers and they log on with their Registration # and pin and shop away. Also - I used to work for an internet marketing company - to PROPERLY optimize your website for the search engines we used to charge thousands of dollars... to do it correctly - in light of that I think Arbonne's offer is a deal.

I am an Arbonne consultant and have been in the business for two years. I absolutely love both the products and the business. I have found that Arbonne always compensates their consultants generously and they always treat us fairly while educating us about the products. I have never heard Arbonne say that their products are all natural. On the other hand, I have heard confused consultants claim that Arbonne's products are all natural. Legally, they have to have preservatives in their prodcuts. They have always been up front about what is in their products. As for your website problem, I don't have a lot of input on that other than I personally have more success with meeting someone face to face. Because my friends want to help me succeed, they are always willing to help me meet new people. Ultimately your business depends on you and what you do with it. If want to succeed you won't let the little things get in your way.

You would all make much more money and "keep" your family and friends if you worked part-time at a cosmetic counter at a department store. Time is money and the time involved in selling this product, not to mention all the products and selling techniques videos they push you to buy....well, the money just doesn't add up. If you actually believe you are working for yourself, you are sadly mistaken. No need for negative comments regarding my lack of knowledge in Arbonne and how they run things. I'm very well versed in this area, as well as other MLM. If you can afford it, taking a business management course would give you a better direction and a better knowledge at how a real business is run.

Wow. A very business-like and professional response. By the way, it's "too bad" not "to bad." I'm sure you're smart enough to know that, however, and it was just a mistake on your part.

For those of you who are interested, Arbonne now has a FREE training site for registered consultants at www.arbonneuniversity.com.

Hi. Just read through most of these comments since I have some spare time which is getting more abundant as I grow my Arbonne business. Been with the company three years now and just earned my Mercedes CLK320 Convertible. I always heard and read (not from Arbonne by the way), give network marketing three to five years of truley putting in an effort. I love Arbonne! I always ran from network marketing but was so impressed with the products and the ingredients that I had to research this company very carefully. Was blown away by the integrity of the company later on. I WAS a Chem. Eng. and I make more money now than I did doing the other. I spend much less time doing this business obviously. Know many engineers working less than 40 hours a week? Yes it isn't easy to build an organization. It takes time, persistance and patience; but for me, it is so worth it. Getting to this level and helping the team move up is so much more than I imagined. Moving up the ladder is hard to do in corporate world especially if I have to wait for them to retire or they expire plus I get to pick who I get to work with! My family and friends don't hate me either. They are thrilled at my success and love the products too.

If I knew that being where I am now was this good, I would have put more effort and time (maybe 15 to 20 hours/week) to reached this point in my business sooner. I really don't put more than 10 hours a week into it. My children and family are far, far better for my efforts too. My spouse will be starting to build his own organization through Arbonne soon.

Those of you looking to sit behind a computer would do better at selling other stuff on ebay or watching your investment in the stock market. Me, I prefer to be with people, create some fantastic relationships and realize personal growth along with helping others. FYI - I use my website to send my clients to for information and setting up their own account, not to retail products. I could go on but I won't and some of you might be grateful that I didn't. He-he.

Someone mentioned a pyramid scheme. Draw out the structure of building a network marketing group were anyone on the bottom can get to the top and bypass those above if they work it hard enough. My organization doesn't look like a pyramid, it looks like a spider. However, draw out corporate America according to it's structure. CEO at the top, then VPs, then upper management, middle management, general employees, office staff etc. Looks like a triangle to me. Does anyone get to move up from the mailroom to the top whether those above them want them to or not? Corporate America paid me well but I still traded time for money. May be some of those who have posted comments don't know and should that in a pyramid scheme no product changes hands, it's illegal and that a company operating on those conditions would be out of business by the feds in a heartbeat. Arbonne has been around for 25 years and debt free at that. Probably a little more security than what corporate America offers. My father worked forty-three years, more than forty hours a week, and they retired him at 40% less because they did a mini-Enron before Enron.

I never frontloaded product and no one on the team has ever implied that a consultant should do so. In fact, we are strongly discouraged to do so. We only purchase personal use products and just enough product to be tooled for building a business which depends on your reach methods. Personally, I do believe you should make a descent investment in the tools you will need according to the reach out methods you choose. I don't believe you will make upper management just by getting a $29.00 account membership and don't know anyone who has done so. Just like any business, you need to purchase the tools to be successful and work. The client's product is ordered and shipped directly to the client through Arbonne's main website or approved Arbonne website such as mine. Rarely do I deliver product.

For those of you looking to make a difference in the health and wealth of others I can't say enough about the potential of Arbonne. It is a vehicle that can be used to help others and attain time and financial freedom as well as just make a little extra money. It is up to the individual and your effort. There are no guarantees. Well, actually, there is a 45 day money back guarantee on product.

I would be glad to answer any questions about building a business with Arbonne.

Take it for what it's worth... In addition to really doing some due diligence on the company, choose your upline manager's well. Are they successful (Is the person who sponsored them in upper management, and the person who sponsored them, etc... successful), do they support the team, check out their trainings and group meetings and what is their preferred reachout method? Some love home parties, some love sample & follow up and some love one on ones. Choose an upline that helps you find your fit, helps you grow as you go and stays connected even after training. Go meet the team!

The only training I have paid for is by my choice (not promoted by Arbonne) and deals with personal growth and leadership. Highly recommend John Maxwell's leadership and teamwork programs.

Wishing everyone personal growth, prosperity and time freedom whether you jump on the Arbonne opportunity or choose another. Those who choose not to educate themselves on network marketing may be wise to read Rich Dad Poor Dad or something from Robert Kiosaki's collections.

Sure counting my blessings everyday!

Wow....Joal...I hate to say it but you're a moron. Geez..all of your "arguments" are easily debunked...so folks...don't listen to him. My wife is a National Vice President with Arbonne. We've been with them for only two years and her monthly income is over $25,000 and growing. This business is exploding! And by the way...we don't do "parties" and we don't need whatever little bit you could make off of ebay. EBAY!? ...come on. Who has time to bother with it. I'm too busy being on the golf course! Friends...if you're reading this and wanting financial freedom...get aboard NOW! Email me and I'll explain how easy this business is..how legitimate it is and how much fun it is.

Are you people insane? Nobody is making $25,000 a month selling cosmetics. To make that much money, you'd have to be grossing $100,000 of sales a month, more or less, and I doubt that Dave or anybody else has that many friends who want to buy bogus "Formulated in Switzerland" skin products. Take a look at the label if you want an idea of how bogus Arbonne is: It says "Swiss" and "Suisse" all over it, but when you get to the fine print, it's not really Swiss at all, it's simply "Formulated" (whatever that means - it's left purposefully vague) in Switzerland. The name "Arbonne" may sound Swiss, but Arbonne is a village in the Pyrenees in south-western France and is nowhere near Switzerland. If you're a dishonest huckster and don't mind getting people to overpay for a dishonest product, or if you have no qualms about exploiting the labors of those who come below you in the pyramid scheme, then Arbonne is for you. Otherwise, get a real job and leave the rest of us alone.

Wow...I'm simply amazed at the ignorance that is thrown around as "wisdom" and "fact". Mr. "Get Real", I'm sorry, but you're just flat out wrong. You're creating your own fiction and deciding to call it "fact" no matter the evidence to the contrary. I'm not sure why such hostility but I'll try to quickly answer Get Real's comments.

First, "Formulated" means, developed, created and then tested to make sure it's safe and that it works. And then it's manufactured in the USA. What's so hard about that? Many products today are not designed and developed in the same place they are manufactured. Callaway golf clubs are designed in California, but made in China. Is Callaway therefore a Chinese company?? And btw..nobody says Arbonne is from Arbonne FRANCE. The Arbonne Institute of Research and Development (AIRD), which you can see pictures of on the Arbonne website, is in Switzerland, specifically Sion, Switzerland. Nobody's trying to hide those facts. It's called "Swiss" because it's developed in Switzerland by mostly, European herbalists and chemists who use Swiss and European herbal and botanical principles in the approach to product formulation. But they are made in the USA and the company is based in California. NO SECRETS THERE!! Hey...the products work, and that's what counts. If you don't like the product...don't use it. My results were more than satisfactory and I have had skin problems since my teen years. If you doubt me, contact a consultant and ask for a sample or take advantage of the 45-day guarantee. Most people who try the products like them..A LOT. That's been our experience. What can I say?

As far as the money comments by Get Real, you're right, we don't sell $100,000 worth of product every month. We only personally sell about $2500, if that. But our organization, all the people under us, sell a total of $500,000 each month. And that number is growing so fast. We'll be a million dollar organization by October if not earlier. And I know people in Arbonne making over 6 figures monthly. My wife's checks are actually below average for an NVP...although she's a new NVP which is the main reason. And don't tell me the people who are making $100K plus per month are lying. I've been to there homes. It's real. I see how many people they've promoted and can do the math myself.

And frankly, nobody in Arbonne who has been successful is teaching that you can be successful and make big money by selling on ebay, or thru your website. It's about duplication. You teach others to sell a little bit, and they teach others to sell a little bit, and so forth, and you get a small commission on the total of everybody. Duplication is the name of the game. You can't do this business hiding in your home office. It takes work. It takes talking to people.

Because you've had a bad experience with another network marketing company, or because you weren't successful with Arbonne, doesn't mean it's not real or that others aren't successful.

There are three reasons people are not successful with Arbonne and none of them involve the company or the products. (But I'll agree that in some companies it might just be the products or the company. Not with Arbonne though.)

The first reason is the person just doesn't do anything. They sign up, buy some product but then don't get into the activity of selling it. They somehow think it will happen automatically.

The second reason is they don't follow the training. Then decide to find an "easier" way. Most of the time the "easier" way is not duplicatable, isn't effective and doesn't work. But instead of following the lead of the successful people and doing what THEY did, this type decide Arbonne doesn't work because their method didn't work. This is where you ebay and website people fall. No RVP or NVP got to that level with ebay or their website sales, but you think it's a fraud since those methods didn't work for you. The way to succeed is to find someone who's been successful and do what they're doing. There are over 500 RVPs and NVPs across the country. By next month there will be 600. They'll be happy to tell you how they did it. Go on the Arbonne website and read their stories. Everyone is there and they tell how they did it.

And the third reason people fail is they're just not likable. Other people don't like you, trust you or respect you, so they don't want to work with you. If you're negative, cynical, hostile, uncoachable and pessimistic you might fall into this catagory. I suggest you read Dale Carnagie's "How to Win Friends and Influence People" and begin to work on yourself. Because you'll not only fail at Arbonne, you'll fail in many other areas too that involve relationships.

Bottom line success in Arbonne is real if you do three things. Get into activity and stay in activity. Duplicate what successful people are doing. And be the kind of person others will want to follow. It's not complicated, but for many it's very hard. And I'm sorry for those who find this recipe hard. I hope you can find the inner strength that it takes to change yourself so it becomes easier and you find success in whatever you do.

Personally, I don't care if Get Real or Joel, or any other negative or skeptical person who posts here ever finds success. But I do care if their attitude drags someone else down who otherwise could find success with Arbonne. Our experience has been life changing and extremely rewarding. The timing is now. So don't wait. Contact me if you need more info.

Dave

Okay..quick comments to finish with Get Reals post. Cosmetics is a trillion dollar industry worldwide. What do you mean nobody is making money selling cosmetics??? Wow, check the revenues of your major cosmetic companies.

Next, nobody is being dishonest, or a huckster. You need proof? I'll print out our last year's statement and you can see our monthly override checks. But yeah...because we did it, doesn't mean you can. I'll agree with that for the reasons I meantioned above.

As far as over priced goes...you're wrong there too. Compare prices of Arbonne to Lancomb or Clinique and our retail prices are comparable or cheaper. Take off the 35%+ discount and they're a bargain compared to department store cosmetic counter competitors.

As far as the pyramid scheme thing...If I had a real job, where would I be in THAT pyramid? And what are my chances of getting to the top? In my Arbonne business I'm at the top of my organization and anyone in my organization is at the top of their's. We all have equal opportunity to reach the top pay level because it's based on productivity. Not luck, or politics or being liked by the boss or by hoping the person above you quits, gets fired or dies. When we joined Arbonne there were 33 NVPs. Now there are over 100. Did General Motors add 70 Presidents to THEIR pyramid last year? Something to think about.

After being with Arbonne for two months, 5 parties and lots of samples later, what do I get?? ZERO sales!! Nuthin', Nada, Zilch! I tried their weight loss program and gained 7 lbs in 2 weeks. I love their skin care, but Arbonne is not meant to be.

I'm going to the gym with the Figure 8 money that I was setting aside for. I get free childcare too. Definitely more worth it than Arbonne.

Wow - I am a new consultant with the puppy dog program - I am excited - I know that it works (both the product & the program) - I, too, have fears (that is what it is) that everyone I know & love will think "oh no - I hope she doesn't talk about Arbonne again". That being said - I am willing to put in the effort & work and really want it to happen. I am using this website as a referral for my friends who are thinking about becoming a consultant. This way they can see both sides and hopefully see the fear and negativity which prompted some to fail... and courage that others had to succeed and I mean SUCCEED!!!

I'm confused a bit... Arbonne is an expensive product... only people with a decent amount of money can afford it... so, most are people who are reasonably bright, at least... you are directed to your consultant's website for actual purchasing... Arbonne offers on their website a $29 "membership" that gets you those expensive products at 35% off... you'll pay for the membership instantly... who in their right mind would pay more?!?

And if we're selling to our friends and family, then surely we'd let them know about the 35% off deal. Right?

So, 35% margin will only happen when selling to morons that you don't like too much, right?

I have to say dave you have posted some of the best comments in here! I too am district manager and area by next month that 3 months total to be making 3k a month i think thats not too shabby. I was wondering if you and your wife did the puppy dog system to grow your buisness? I also was wondering if all of you new consultants new who acutally started the puppy dog way? Their names are Jerry and Rachelle nichols. They started it in oklahoma and brought to arizona where it is just booming. I owe my whole success to them for creating this amazing new way of doing the buisness. I think he gets left out and not everyone knows his amazing story. It is because of him that i am going to be getting my car in september this year that is 5 months from start to finish. To all of you skeptics out there you cant knock something if you havent tried it. Rich dad Poor Dad is the best book i have ever read i recommend it to every person especially you fellow arbonnians :) Good luck to all of you out there and thanks Dave for you awesome insight!

Once again, I would ask the scam artists to please stop preying on the credulous and the desperate. The puppy dog system is a pyramid scheme, pure and simple. You pay $1,500 or so for four kits, get four gullible friends to take them and then sign up to buy another $1,500 worth of kits, and then you earn money on your friends' purchases. The catch - and there's always a catch - is that you have to buy $70 or so of products EVERY MONTH in order to earn "upstream" revenues. So the pyramid scheme only works when 1) you're wasting your family's money on buying Arbonne's bogus, new age cosmestics; and 2) the people you're preying on downstream are also buying the products. But sooner or later the house of card falls apart, because the people at the very bottom eventually realize they're on the bottom and can't find anybody to scam into the pyramid, and they stop buying the products. The people one rung up from them then stop buying the products, because they don't have anyone beneath them sending revenue upstream anymore, and pretty soon everyone realizes it's a scam and stops paying high prices for lotions in Arbonne's pretty bottles. If you get in at the top, you've already made a pretty penny, but if you're at the middle or the bottom you lose, and all your supposed friends who claimed they would change your life have exploited you to take money away from you and your family.

Now I know that the Arbonne people on this web site are going to sceam at me for being "negative", but that's exactly right - I have a negative opinion of anyone who, just to make a quick buck, would try to scam their friends and family into a pyramid scheme where those at the bottom of the scheme are guaranteed to lose money. You may have convinced yourselves that this is a "life changing" company, but it's not. It's a pyramid scheme, and anyone who participates in it should be ashamed of themselves.

Joel, You are welcome to join our yahoo club called mlmsurvivorsclub. You can find it also on the www.mlmsurvivor.com website. I have been involved in a few mlm's and party plans and the mlm's are the worst as far as deception goes (by the higher ups). We have lost thousands of dollars chasing a "dream" of making it in an mlm that has never paid out the way they promise. I wish you the best! Stay away from mlm's!! -Jennifer

Hi! I, too signed up as an Arbonne consultant, but have not "acted" on it, because I could not host any classes. Now, with the puppy dog system it is doable. However, I have questions regarding the income. My friend who signed me up won't answer my questions regarding how much she makes, so I thought I try this forum instead. If I invest the time and the money, I would like to know if it's worth it. The overrides are a bit confusing. Seems to me that if you are a DM, and your retail volume is say $5K, you only get 8% off of the 65% override volume ($3250), which equals $260. My friend is qualifying for AM this month, so if she has a RV of $10K, that means she only makes $520, correct? That sounds like peanuts to me and not the thousands of dollars people are claiming to make. It seems Dave lives in a high-income area, which we don't. Can anybody give me some real incomes of DM's and AM's or even consultants? Also, how much RV do I have to have to make say $800 per month? Thanks!

First Andrea...

Yes, your math is correct. You'd get an override of $260. But if you had 5 signups in that month you'd also get the DM bonus of $200. If you had any of your signups go with the RSVP order you'd get $50 for each of those. Your friend at Area would make the $520 plus her DM bonus as well if she had $5000 in her District and 5 signups for a total of $720 plus any RSVP bonuses. Once she gets to Area that same volume would get her an additional $390. So if $800 a month is what you're after, get to Area and you'll have it. No one makes big pay checks at District. It's a building process like any other business. (I'm sure that Bill Gates makes a bigger paycheck today than he did the first year Microsoft was founded.) It may not seem like much at first, but I'd bet if you figure out the hourly wage it would be equal, if not better, than working at Walmart or almost any parttime job.

Your friend however should be willing to tell you what her last override check was. Also, if you got to the Arbonne web site you will find a section listing the average bonus and override payouts per quarter at each level.

Now to Ed..
Come on Ed....do you really think Arbonne is trying to pull something over on us? I'm sure there's an explanation. At NTC this year they had a slide show of the place. There have been National Vice Presidents who have visited it. I'm asking myself, and getting no answer, "what would be the purpose, what motive, or how would this benefit the bottom line of the company, to talk about a place that doesn't exist?" And how would they get all these NVPs who have gone there to get on board with keeping up the illusion?? I don't know what the rules are in Switzerland about business listings, but it's not a retail store. The don't need to advertise. It's a private research laboratory. Only the people who work there need to know where it is.

This kind of reminds me of the Beanie Baby craze 8 or 9 years ago where there were all these stories of people unable to find where Ty, the manufacturer, was located, like there was some big conspiracy. Reporters were all over the Chicago area asking people where this Ty company was located and nobody knew. They weren't in the phone book either. hmmmmmmm...interesting.

Yes Ed, your question is simple enough...but irrelevant don�t you think? Unless you�re accusing Arbonne of fabricating a story about a fictional research laboratory, what difference does it make if the place is or isn�t listed in the phone book? But I guess that�s what you�re doing so that�s why it matters what is on your mind. The explanation is surely a simple one as I said, but is it really worth spending time on it? There's not one good reason to make such a story up. The suggestion is simply ludicrous.

So if I take you up on your suggestion, Ed, that I "prove you wrong"....what will that accomplish for you personally? Are you losing sleep at night? Are you needing therapy because of this question? Are you afraid that your uncertainty will cause undue harm to someone? I don't get why this is such a burning question for you. You really believe that a 25 year old company would be perpetrating a fraud so they could sell more product with the �Swiss� name on it and that after 25 years of a spotless record YOU are the first person to figure this caper out and report on it? It�s just silly, sorry to say. So if I provide an address, or an explanation for your inability to track down this international conspiracy, what do I get in return? An apology? You see it�s not worth my time to bother. I know individuals who have been there and they have no reason to lie. I�ve seen their pictures. Up until recently the pictures of NVP Jeanne Sterner�s visit were right on the Arbonne website. It�s such a moot point I can�t believe I�m even commenting on it!

Joel, it's interesting I found your blog today on this topic! I was looking at my hits to my blog where I also discussed this topic. My time is up as of July 4, 2005, and I completely agree with the frustration you have experienced trying to sell online. I have also noticed that some consultants could do things to advertise online and others are not allowed to do so. Replicated sites are worthless in the search engines, whether we pay $39 or not to promote them. I got www.ShareSkinCare.com to promote it so I wouldn't have the product name online. It's just God telling me to stick with my artwork :) and not get tempted by any more direct sales...so I'm going to listen to Him this time! (if you check out shareskincare.com you will see I have removed any promotion from there, and when the time is up, I am going to forward the link to my art site).

I'm sorry I had lost touch with you, I am still interested in doing some art for you if you are interested, please contact me. Sorry we lost touch somehow.

Ed- So glad someone else has had the same doubts about Arbonne's supposed Swiss-ness. I called the Registre de Commerce (Business Registry) in Sion, Switzerland (+41 27 322 92 05), and the officials there say there is no "Arbonne" registered in the Canton of Valais, nor have they ever heard of anything named "Arbonne". Sion is a town of just under 20,000 people, so if there were in fact an "Arbonne Institute of Research & Development" in Sion, Switzerland (As Dave, the guy whose wife supposedly makes $25k a month, claims in the post above), you would think that the Business Registry would at least have heard of the place. I, too, have asked Arbonne, Inc. for more details on the "Arbonne Institute of Research & Development", and they have avoided the request. This just seems like one more reason to avoid the company altogether.

I'll supply an address, Ed, or at least a description of the location if I can. Frankly, I've never been there so I can't tell you first hand where to find it. I'm sure it's not a huge place. There's probably only 10 or 12 employees. I have written to one of the NVPs who has been there, and by the way, has a picture of her standing in front of the place on her Eye On Arbonne. (EOAs are printed success stories from VPs) However, since I'm so confident the place exists and since your are adamant that it doesn't...so much so that you now have "Get Real" piling on....I'm tempted to suggest a little wager. How much can you afford to lose??

Hi Dave,
There is no need for a bet, I have good faith in you, if the place exists you will come up with an address and phone number. I have no complaint about Arbonne products and it seems MLM marketing schemes are here to stay in spite of what I think of them.
My point is, if...and I say IF, a company is going to plaster the Swiss flag all over their products and claim that they are formulated in Switzerland in their research laboratory and the whole thing turns out to be a fabrication then I think that would speak volumes about the scruples of the people that are running the company, don't you?

Hi Dave,
I have also found the address and phone number of Pierre Bottiglieri. I have a call into SCC which according to Arbonne is the organization he is supposed to be president of (he is not the president by the way) and he is supposed to call me back....so far there has been no reply. I will let you know the moment I hear something.
Regards, Ed

Hi Ed,
At this point I think I have the story straight and I will admit that I was under a misconception about AIRD. But having said that, I don�t think that the truth about AIRD can in anyway be considered an example of deceit or lying on the part of Arbonne. The whole explanation and history would take far too much space here to go into and would be pretty useless, but I�ll try to share enough of what I�ve learned to satisfy your inquiry.

First, you�re right in the sense that AIRD does not exist as a specific place. At least not yet. That is certainly a misconception on my part, but I must add, that misconception wasn�t really because of anything Arbonne actually said or states in any literature. I misinterpreted information and made a conclusion without all the facts. The pictures I saw were of the facility that, at the time, had been set aside to work exclusively on Arbonne products, and not owned by Arbonne. I�m actually grateful to you for allowing me the opportunity to clear this up in my own understanding.

In essence, AIRD historically has been a team of professional chemists, herbalists and master skin care professionals who are coordinated by Arbonne to develop the ideas and science needed to create Arbonne products. In the early days many of these researchers including Pierre, were indeed part of Arval, whose owner was a friend of Arbonne�s founder. In recent years, Arbonne�s team has employed several labs throughout Switzerland to take the ideas of the AIRD team, create the formulations, do the testing, and turn them into the products Arbonne then manufacturers in California.

Also, as Arbonne grows, the concept of AIRD is also continuing to evolve. Pierre is now working in a temporary lab devoted solely to Arbonne product research as Arbonne is, in fact, in the process of being registered globally. Additionally, AIRD will soon include chemists from several other countries to contribute to product development and will have their own facility to formulate, test and even manufacture Arbonne products.

I hope this clears it up to your satisfaction and I apologize for my errors.

Hi All...
(Off the subject of AIRD) I had a baby 6 weeks ago and wasn't sure I'd be able to stay at home with her. But I am having major success with this business and not only will I be able to stay at home with her, but I am going over and beyond what my corporate job paid me. I was going through the motions of my day-to-day job, seeing the same people everyday, going to the same meetings, sitting in the same break room, working the same hours, driving the same roads, getting the same paychecks (even though my work-load was getting bigger). I have always been shy but have wanted to make a change and meet new folks. This business has forced me to come out of my shell and meet new friends and I am having the best time of my life in addition to making money! Arbonne is a lifestyle! It is a life-altering product as well as business opportunity. I never knew I could have so much fun while bringing in income.
To all you new consultants like me... don't give up! It may take a couple of no-show parties but ultimately you will get there! Don't get discouraged by these folks on here who didn't give it much of a chance.
thanks...serra in california

Ed�
I don�t know what to tell you at this point. It�s a matter of how you interpret the information you have. I can agree that the letter you say you received from Arbonne would lead you to believe they own their own lab. But it doesn�t actually say that. It also doesn�t say AIRD is a building. If AIRD is a team of Arbonne coordinated researchers, it could just mean they conduct their business in Sion. Personally, understanding what I know now, I think the letter is factually correct. But I agree it could be misconstrued. As far as the quotes from consultant web sites go, this is a prime example of why Arbonne needs to be so strict with upholding the rules of what a consultant can claim, where and how they can advertise and what kinds of documents they attach the Arbonne logo to. Even Joel�s opening sentence on this board is factually wrong. Arbonne does not now, nor have they ever, advertised their products as �All Natural�. But someone hears it said and passes it along and it suddenly is considered a �fact�.

Bottom line is this: Arbonne products are indeed formulated, tested and perfected in Switzerland by Swiss and European researchers in Swiss laboratories and then manufactured in the U.S. and distributed by independent consultants throughout the U.S. and Canada. Arbonne products incorporate the latest science and technology and the highest quality ingredients to create products that are pure, safe and beneficial to the end user. There are literally hundreds of thousands of satisfied customers who would attest to that.

I realize that I can�t change your mind if you�re so down on Network Marketing so I�m not going to continue with this specific conversation. (And admit that it�s network marketing that you�re against because if Arbonne products were sitting on a shelf in your local salon you would have no interest in scrutinizing them as you are.) All I can say is I love the products and would use then even if I wasn�t in the business. As Arbonne continues to expand and their sales continue to explode it is only a matter of time before Arbonne is a household name like Mary Kay or Pampered Chef. Those who join this business have a great opportunity to build a fabulous income and lifestyle. Right now I�m sitting here looking out the window at my wife�s E-320 and my brand new SUV and I�m deciding if I should play golf today, even though it�s a bit cloudy. I couldn�t do that two years ago.

Dave,
If I tell you "I have my own private castle in France" what does that mean to you?

To me, Arbonne's intent is crystal clear... and to me, their intent is deception. As I have said before, I have no complaint against their products because I have only used one or two and I could not possibly form an opinion based on that small amount of exposure.

Additionally, I have no complaint against the fact that they use network marketing to sell their product. Whatever I may think of that type of marketing, it is a legal reality and certainly here to stay.

My whole problem is that Arbonne represents themselves as a Swiss company with a laboratory in Switzerland and that is simply not the case.

By the way, for nearly three years I have hosted a forum here in Switzerland called �The Swiss Consumers Forum� to give people living in Switzerland a place to discuss things like this. I would like to invite you to join because the conversation about Arbonne is starting to heat up over there too. Your insight would lend some balance to the conversation.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/swissconsumersforum/

Regards, Ed

PS:
As for your wife�s Mercedes and your SUV...Congratulations!

Hi Claire, feel free to email me and I'll pass along my thoughts regarding your request.

Ed, I guess we'll just have to disagree on this because you�re seeing it different than I am. I don�t interpret the �Suisse� on the bottle or the �Formulated in Switzerland� to mean it�s a Swiss company. It�s not a Swiss company. It�s owned by primarily by an American investment company and managed by mostly Americans. The company was founded in Europe by a Norwegian, Petter M�rck, and his son, Stian, has a predominant role in running the company now that the founder has basically retired. Arbonne does not advertise itself as Swiss company. They advertise their products as being formulated in Switzerland, which is true, using herbal and botanical formulations that are based on Swiss and European principles and methods. To the cynic it might sound like a marketing ploy, but it is really a statement of philosophy and an indicator of the kind of product it is. For example, most U.S. cosmetic companies use mineral oil as the base of their lotions. You won�t find a Swiss skin care, of any kind, using mineral oil. The Swiss thinking is that mineral oil isn�t good for your skin. When you see �Swiss� it simply means the product, formulated in Switzerland, conforms to Swiss standards. How can it be any clearer?

P.S. I think we're worn this one out. If you agree with Ed, then don't do Arbonne, don't buy the product and keep doing what you're doing and getting what you're getting. It doesn't matter. If you can comprehend the meaning of "Swiss" then I'm sure you're tired of this, as I am.

Aloha,

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Mahalo,
Shonna
Independent Consultant

Joel ~

Arbonne International promotes its marketing as 'network' rather than multi-level. There is a difference and my wife and I are glad there is. Network marketing means that you're not pushing someone else up the rungs. You can pass them up on the ladder to financial success, earn your bonuses and goodies along the way, and continue sharing the business opportunity with others who can do the same (including 'pass you on their way up').

This is an important difference because it allows a more lucrative program - only four levels of management in Arbonne's case. And that's one of the most attractive features of being involved with Arbonne. It's 'multi-level' that's given home-based business efforts a bad name - someone's always pushing you to produce as they realize more income from your hard work. Some programs are so top-heavy that all you'll ever see is other people's butt ... you'll never have the opportunity offered by Arbonne to 'make it to the top,' 'go to the beach,' whatever you want to call your desired level of success.

We have a my.arbonne website and are happy to refer our prospective consultants/business builders to it. We have it to show a level of professionalism and expand our ability to communicate with a greater number of prospects. We never intended to make a business of marketing product over the Internet. Imagine, if you will, thousands of wanna-be business gurus clamoring over themeselves with website presence, hoping for a piece of the pie. That's not the kind of business we want to 'enjoy.'

Arbonne is first driven by sharing the business opportunity. The products virtually speak for themselves. It's the personal testimonies of people who use Arbonne products that bring more sales consultants into the fold. The integrity of the brand and the ethical business practices of the growing thousands of consultants will continue to make Arbonne the envy of the network marketing industry.

Thanks for being there.

Dave Smith

Dear Joel, I just signed up as an Arbonne consultant and received my first order. My complaints are basic. There were no instructions (except on each item) on how to use the stuff; there is no good way to determine the best tints for a customer; there is no return item slip in the box. In fact I had to stay on hold 33 minutes before I talked to someone re my order. My upline person lives far from me and I have to pay for long distance to talk with her. Dotti

At this link I have shared my personal thoughts on this.

Hey Junkman...think what you want. Everything I said here is true and I'm not a "plant" for the company, but then it doesn't matter, small minded people think what they want regardless of the facts. I hope your girlfriend makes the right decision, whatever that is, and doesn't regret someday that she listened to you. You're what we call in this industry a "crab". Because you want to pull somebody down and keep them from escaping their situation and realizing their own dreams and desires, just like crabs to each other when thrown together in a bucket. I feel sorry for people like you, I really do. Your arrogance and attitude have probably not gotten you very far and they won't. Arbonne doesn't need you so please, feel very free to stay away.

Okay..Junkman�don�t post again and don�t respond. Make that a promise that we can hold you to. Please.

Your posts did nothing for the people who are sincerely trying to make a serious decision about their future or to elevate the nature of this discussion. I apologize to any reader who thought my original response to Junkman was too harsh.

The experiences I shared�.those �slick� �Too many stories�..were to illustrate how experiences in other environments and businesses can be applied to understanding experiences in this business. So let me run down why I said about you what I said.

Your first post lacked any intelligent thought or appearance of knowledge as anything I�ve read on this thread. You labeled me a �plant� for the company as if to say I�m paid to sit here and respond to this kind of nonsense and to lie about the company so those really bad secrets you are sure exist don�t get out. You called me �slick� and untrustworthy when I�ve made it a point to spell out my experience with this company in an honest attempt to give people reading a sense of how to succeed; how WE succeeded. You referred to Joel as the author of comments that Ed made and you blathered on about coming up with your own mlm company and buying the same formulas that Arbonne buys..etc. Just plain sophomoric, uninformed waste of anybody�s time. You brought me into your condemnation of Arbonne in a way specifically intended to malign my efforts and my insights in the hope that you would influence readers to disregard anything I said.
I, my friend, was simply repaying the compliment. The tone was well deserved.

As far as your credentials, or mine, they have little to do with the concept of wisdom. Something you seem to have avoided in this endeavor. My satisfaction and reward in this business is not money. Anybody who has heard me train or speak know that. You can take my comment about my decision to leave radio for a higher paying job as being motivated by money, because I didn�t elaborate, but that wasn�t the whole story. The whole story was irrelevant to the point. Just like your degree and job experience is irrelevant to your advice to your girlfriend when you approach it from the view you have. Learn a little humility and comprehend the concept that without first hand knowledge about Arbonne and the people who manage the company and develop the products, you have little that you can offer to someone truly searching; except of course, your negative, condescending, insulting and utterly meaningless comments.

There is almost always this wording:

"it was a blessing,"

"I started on such and such a date and by this date I became National Vice President!" or some such thing.

"I earned my white Mercedes!"

"I do so much better than I did as a teacher!" (or whatever).

Then it usually ends with the trademark phrase:
"I love what I do!"

The phrases are almost always in that order.

I now actually start laughing out loud when I read that stuff!

I got all rah rah about the Mercedes also. I tried to get others on the bandwagon (luckily my friends are brighter than me) LOL.

RE the Puppy Dog thing, I must admit I don't know much about that system, because when I received the information in my email in-box from the upline, I rolled my eyes and deleted it. I'm sure it isn't what was meant by 'Puppy Dog System,' but the idea hit me that they were saying that I should string people along like puppies popped into my head and that was a TOTAL turn off to me.

Congratulations to those who could make it work, my hat is off to you.

Actually Dave, I'm quite happy for the people who can and did do it. Go back and read my last line.
And that will be my last line. I am done. I have a good at-home business, actually. I just believe people should see all sides of things and think for themselves. It is sad that you have to resort to insulting me to try to prove your point. So you have so many customers you have time to write 3 paragraph essays? Interesting.

Darla, seeing all sides of something is not accomplished by mocking the comments from Arbonne consultants who have expressed their feelings about what the business has done for them and their families. And believe me...what you were doing was mocking. There's nothing insulting about what I wrote. Your post showed an obvious lack of knowledge and your lack of knowledge prompted you to make conclusions that were unfair and untrue.

And frankly, I don�t enjoy taking the time, nor do I have the desire, to respond to ignorance. It�s a complete waste of time. Regarding genuine concerns and questions I enjoy the opportunity to share my comments in a sincere attempt to help people out. I can write 3 paragraph responses because I�m working from home, thanks to Arbonne, and I type fast.

Hi Everyone,
I am a former flight attendant for United Airlines who has turned to Arbonne for a way out of the "rat race". I love their products, botanically based, no animal by products, no mineral oil, or harmful chemicals. Anyone thinking of joining should go for it!! If you would like a sponsor in the MIAMI,FLORIDA area, email me, I would be glad to meet you.
To all you negative folks out there, best of luck to you too, your going to need it.

You "get rich quick", live beyond your means people make me sick.

Life's not about money.

Oh, and I already made it in the "B" sector.

Schmucks.

hey spunky no one is saying get rich quick or live beyond your means....this is a real "B" buisness and robert Kiyosaki says so himself so i wouldnt say that we are all trying to get rich quick..this buisness is hard and emotionally demanding but sooooo worth it and if you do not have the proper training or emotional stability then you will never get out of the rat race to do anything with your financial future. Im glad to hear that you have a "real B" but saying life isnt about money is so ignorant...without money we have nothing no means for shelter or food or pretty much anything...the poor focus on money more than the rich..the poor complain about not having enough money and thats alllll they think about...so re-evaluate your statement cause it isnt why any of us in arbonne do this buisness! Anyone in miami Fl contact terri she is an amazing person to work with and im so proud to have her as a part of my team in arizona love ya girl :)

I've been researching Arbonne and like everything except the fact that they charge their consultant for "training meetings". Typically employers so not "charge" their employees for a meeting. While I understand that technically each consultant is self employed, I do not understand their logic in charging. Keeping your staff or people who represent your company well informed and trained should be standard, not an "extra". Are all meetings sponsored by Arbonne? Perhaps some are local groups and that�s the reason for the charge, but still�Surely a debt free company can incur that cost right?

Thanks to everyone for a Great read. My wife and I will now go forward with excitement in this new business for us....God Bless!

My partner and I have been successful in establishing an Arbonne business in only three months. Gay Men LOVE skin care and that market is working great for us! Our business is exploding! Thanks for a great site!

Roger

So should my wife and I get in or not? We are sitting on the fence.

Stewart, I'd highly recommend you try it. It's worth the small fee and whatever investment you decide on. With the new "results approach" it's better in my opinion. As I said, I don't like the parties. Please let me know if you'd like more help on this. I'd love to help you and your wife. I need to sponsor more! Where do you live?

I just attended a Arbonne "party" and chose to become an independent consultant. I am glad I found this site because it solidified my decision. First, I didn't do it for the money, I was VERY impressed with the products. I've used everything from Mary Kay to Proactive to MD Formulations. None of these products made my skin feel as good as Arbonne. Second, I don't care if the product was formulated in some guy's garage, the quality is AMAZING! I have always been leery of MLM's, but with the low investment cost and a "low pressure" selling technique, just the personal use benefits alone are the reasons I chose to join. If in the future, I plan to expand the business I can. But personal testimonies and visible results are the best way to sell to friends and family and keep their respect.

By the way, I believe that the cost of training is a tax deductable expense (fees, transportation, food, lodging, etc.) but check with a Tax Advisor.

This is for DAVE...in speaking with a National VP that was attempting to get me involved with ARBONNE, she told me not to bother signing up if I couldn't place at least a $1000 order when I pay my $29. Now, I don't know about you but money doesn't grow on trees for me. Telling me all of the benefits of Arbonne but then limiting me to a $ figure or "don't bother" seemed like this just isn't an equal opportunity for everyone. Yes the product is great but let's take a look at the whole picture. I'm glad it is working for you. My goal is not a mercedes...I have 6 kids to put through college. This just seems too risky and the cost of the products alone makes it a difficult sell. I like it and I will just buy it on EBAY. I don't need to sell it to use it. As far as the "too good to be true", when Arbonne was touted to me as a great thing, I was told all you have to pay is $29 and you can succeed. When delving in a little deeper I learn this was not the case. I wasn't merely referring to only the posts on this site but all of the information I have gathered about Arbonne.
I like to be able to look at myself in the mirror and to sleep at night. Selling over priced skincare (albeit great skincare) to my friends and pressuring them to get involved, so I can move up the proverbial "ladder" of success, so I CAN have financial freedom is just a little too deceitful. Yeah, yeah if I tell them they can do it too the "chain" grows and inevitably we can all have a mercedes right? WE get out of it what we put into right? Yes, but at what cost?
This has MLM/Pyramid written all over it. All of you should be ashamed of yourselves trying to encourage others to do it.

Shirles, There�s just so much that is flawed in what you said that I�m tempted to not respond. It�s getting tiring because it seems like the same things just keep coming up. And once again we�re going through this misconception that results in this �since I can�t do it then all of you who can are immoral� attitude. It�s your typical class envy that permeates American society today. If you�re wealthy and successful you must have gotten that way by stealing from and taking advantage of the poor and weak. It�s really sad we�ve come to that as a society. We should be celebrating hard work that results in success and teaching our young people to rely on themselves and not live for a government hand out every time they need something. Arbonne represents an excellent example of how average people can work hard and experience above average success to become self reliant. But some like to tear this down and claim it�s ill gotten.

Shirles, if an NVP told you (and I�m skeptical of that) that you HAVE to start with a $1000 order, she was wrong. However, if she told you that �to have the best opportunity for early success� you should start with a $1000 order, she was absolutely correct. There are at least two reasons why this is so. First, in order to promote to District Manager, which you want to do as fast as possible, you need $1000 retail order under your name. (btw at wholesale it�s $650 out of pocket) This order has to be during your qualification period. And it�s the only time you�re required to buy anything save the $100 monthly order required to receive any overrides. Secondly, if you want to sell product, you need product to sell. Anyone who is planning to do this business seriously needs to be equipped with the right tools or you�re just doomed to fail. What store opens to a lot of fanfare and then tells the customers, �I�m sorry we don�t have anything here to sell, but you can just order it and well call you when it comes in.�? While you CAN just sign up for $29 without a product purchase, and it may be possible to build from nothing, the reality is that it is much easier if you have some product on hand.

Also, Shirles, with all due respect, it�s also possible that this NVP you talked with was, in reality, trying NOT to encourage you to get involved. If you�re so hung up on the cost of the product and uncomfortable asking others to spend the money, then maybe she realized you are not a good fit for this business and was simply trying to set the bar too high for you. I can imagine working with you would be a real struggle because you�re so against the whole idea. I would not want to work with you having read your posts. There are too many people who are happy, excited, coachable and willing to jump right in that I don�t need to expend energy on building belief in someone who will just never look for the positive side of things. If you were someone who really wanted to be successful with this business you would get the necessary product training to understand why Arbonne�s products cost what they do. You�d be confident then that the R&D and QC that goes into these products justify the cost and, in fact, makes them a bargain when compared to the competition.

And finally, we have never pressured anyone to buy the products or join the business. The most successful people we have on our team are the ones who, like us, experienced the quality of the product and realized the potential of sharing the product with a market place that demands the quality and results Arbonne offers. Anytime we�ve tried to work with someone who has a hundred reasons why they can�t make it, it�s been a failure. But I will concede that as Arbonne grows and the word gets out of the financial success being obtained, those who are all to willing to compromise their integrity to get what they want will be attracted to the business. It�s true of any business and unfortunate indeed. It�s why Arbonne has a very strict code of ethics and works very diligently to insure that consultants in the field are not saying things that are untrue. I encourage anyone who comes across questionable statements to call Arbonne and report it.

Yes, it�s very much a sales business and you have to believe in your product and believe that your product offers something your customer wants or needs and that the cost is a fair deal for all concerned. If you don�t believe that then it�s not a good fit and you should find something else. And there�s nothing wrong with that. I personally would have a hard time selling a lot of things, but I don�t consider those who do immoral. (Unless it�s illegal of course) What makes it wrong is when you say because it�s not a good fit for me, then everyone else who is doing it is deceitful, dishonest and a scoundrel. I just don�t understand the bitterness and that�s what I find so unfortunate in this conversation.

The product/company is not at the heart of this debate. It cannot be denied that many people can and do succeed in MLM. And they are to be commended for very hard work...in a tough and awkward industry. MLM becomes problematic when individuals sell a dream to friends/family that either do not have the skill set required to succeed or an ACCURATE understanding of what it takes to succeed. That�s the bottom line. MLM is NOT for everyone.

Also�Dave. If you are confident in your chosen profession and the company that facilitates it, you shouldn�t have to spend so much their defense. Both should be able to stand on their own.

To Arbonne or not to Arbonne??? Isn't it time you have an awkward conversation with a loved one?

An interesting post!
My wife and I have been involved with the Quixtar business since its inception, and with the Amway corporation for many years before that. As someone with a great deal of experience in MLM, and as someone who find research into MLMs interesting,

I AGREE WITH YOU. Most people aren't mature enough to build a company with others in mind. That's why we sing the praises of people like S. Truett Cathy, who founded Chick-Fil-A. That company exists solely to provide jobs to teens in a mentoring environment. If everyone were that mature, our world would be VERY different.

I'm not here to promote my business, or Quixtar. The principles involved are more important than any one business...

1. Any MLM business that requires you to build inventory to get started may be illegal. This is known as "front-loading" and is one of the marks of an illegal pyramid. Such businesses are almost inevitably shut down by the FTC within three years.

2. Any business that promotes the use of the phrase "ground floor opportunity" is likely going to disappear in about the same amount of time. Essentially, you have to imply that the business is a better deal NOW than it will be LATER...so everyone you involve later has less opportunity than you have.

3. Any MLM business that promotes itself as being about A PARTICULAR PRODUCT is in deep, deep trouble. You can't sustain a long-term business using a multi-level marketing model based on 'the next big thing'. Patents expire, people tire of fads, and competitors invent better, cheaper products...or a big news story kills your entire business, as happened to a health-shake company a while back.

4. Any MLM that tells you there's a shortcut to building a network is looking to rip you off. Such businesses are built one person at a time, face to face, and are entirely dependent on such relationships. I've fought any inclination by Quixtar to circumvent that process, and always will.

Again, not to promote my company over any other...but to point out the principles involved in a sound, long-term business model: Quixtar's message is that everyone gets the same deal, no matter what. Front-loading will get you kicked out, and any suspicious activity is investigated as dangerous to all others involved in the business. When one product loses steam, it can be replaced with another...the network isn't dependent on everyone's continued interest in last year's technology.

If you're looking into MLM, I applaud you. If your MLM violates these principles, I humbly suggest that you look to the future, to the well-being of your organization, and to those you have (or will have) involved and get out.

1) It will be August in a few days and it's time for Candace to share a pic of the car she allegedly will have by then and more importantly ...

2) I think Ed is my soul mate. Ed, are you married? If not, I'd like to cook and clean for you ... your posts made my day and I need to pay you back in some small way. I love how you were called out on a wager and asked "how much it was worth to you" to prove an actual research facility (which is not merely a file in another research facility) existed, and then all the sudden "oops, nevermind, but I don't think that should be held against them." PRICELESS!

Wow...now I am sure I made the right decision.
Thanks to all of you posted all of the information on MLM's. Sorry Dave, just know that you did what was right for you and leave it at that. I have never in my life been called a cynic. Just because I am not willing to jump into something you do doesn't make my choice wrong. You are right Arbonne and MLM isn't for me, but not for the reasons you think. Thank goodness I realized that before I dumped any money into it.
Have a great life and I hope for your sake you are very successful.

Wow...again...maybe you selected the wrong profession, perhaps psychology would suit you as well. My tone displays anger, bitterness and resentment? My husband and I are in stitches!
Better yet, stay with the Arbonne. Leave the diagnosing to the professionals.
I posted what I did to provoke others to think before they do. Yes, mine is only one perspective but if it helps someone to decide one way or the other then I'm glad to have helped. Isn't that what forums are all about? What I posted are my observations and opinions. Yes, I had a lot of questions and seemingly you are so offended by my conclusions that you have to now stoop to your psychological analysis.
Not good sound business tactics. Hopefully, you limit such behavior to forums only. I wish to close this discussion now as I have made my decision. We have made the decision that we feel is best for us.
Just take a deep inhalation and exhale letting it all go. Once again breathe in 1,2,3 hold for a moment and now...exhale. That's good.
God Bless!

Shirles�Laugh all you want. But with every post you demonstrate my point and betray your attempts to portray yourself as being objective. Your comments are full of emotional responses that have no objective criticism that would be useful to anybody wishing to make an OBJECTIVE and informed decision. (Look up �objective� in the dictionary if you�re unclear on what that means.)

It�s not necessary to be a psychologist to label your comments the way I did. And by the way�.it�s no crime to be a cynic, nor is it insulting. I�m cynical about any number of things in this world and with regard to some things I would wear the label �Cynic� as a badge of honor. In those cases I believe my cynicism is defendable. My problem with your comments is that they display emotion that can only be attributed to resentment or bitterness about the industry, the company, the products or the way you were introduced to them. Why can I make that claim? Because if your complaint was an objective one, you would probably not felt the need to post your initial comments indicating that you thought there was �deception� involved with the company. You didn�t post that you felt the product was too expensive and therefore you decided, on that point, not to do the business; an opinion that could have been debated instructively. You posted that the product was too expensive and that there was DECEPTION�.i.e. some form of immoral activity going on with regard to Arbonne. That was a subjective and emotional response/opinion not based on any fact that you can demonstrate. It was an attempt to sling mud and hope that it stuck. It was being CYNICAL. If you were not angry, bitter or resentful (one, or all three) why the need to launch the attack in that manner?

In your next post you tried to tell the story of your introduction to Arbonne, but again, instead of sticking to the objective facts which I tried to address for your benefit, you threw in that last line, �All of you should be ashamed of yourselves trying to encourage others to do it.� Now, you may disagree, but if that isn�t bitterness or resentment I don�t know what is. It�s another indication of your emotional response, like it or not. It�s the �I can�t do it, so all of you who can, or want to, are immoral� response. It�s sad and very revealing. Even a psychologist would agree.

You explained that you have kids to put thru college which means you have a need. Arbonne is obviously not the answer you�re looking for. But it is the answer for many. I see it everyday. I can tell you that to put those kids thru college, meaning you can just write a check for tuition for the college of their choice, you�re pretty much limited to starting your own business. If your salary from a job were enough you wouldn�t have expressed that need. You may win the lottery, if you play, but I wouldn�t count on it. Owning your own business is the only way you�ll increase your income to cover those needs. If you have the capital available to open a traditional brick and mortar store, go ahead. But that�s not easy or guaranteed either. You called Arbonne �risky�. Anyone who opened, or has looked into opening, a traditional business would simply laugh at that characterization. If you know of an opportunity, or find one, with potentially big returns; the kind that could pay for 6 college educations; AND had NO risk, please let me know what it is!!

My point on this board is simply to defend Arbonne against your kinds of comments; the pointless ones based on emotions, clich� and ignorance; and to encourage others considering the business to appreciate the FACTS about this company, it�s products and compensation structure so they make the right decision, what ever decision that may be.

It�s instructive; I think, for those who read these posts to take notice that, for the most part, the criticisms directed at Arbonne are nothing more than personal opinions and old clich�s about MLM in general or emotional attempts to disparage those involved. Any of the objective concerns about policy, procedures, business strategy, products and real life experiences can be reasonably resolved if the party asking wishes to listen.

Karen,
The term �pups� as you have heard it is likely referring to the RE9 set that some consultants are using to introduce potential customers to the product line. It comes from the �puppy dog approach� sales technique, which I explained in an earlier post. Arbonne is asking that we call it the �Results Approach� and just refer to the products as a �set� or �system�. Hope that helps!

PJ, you make a good point. Some who have posted here want to portray everybody involved in network marketing as over zealous and over bearing fools who can�t help but constantly pester friends and family to join their business. I don�t know anybody like that. There may be some, but I doubt they ever become successful with that strategy. As I�ve said before, the key to the business is to attract people to your business by being the kind of person they see as capable of teaching them the business and as someone they would enjoy working with. If you�re a likable, dignified, confident person who makes friends easily, you don�t suddenly become an idiot who doesn�t know how to interact with people. Letting people know what you�re doing is all you have to do. If they like you and trust you they will want to know more about it. If they have an interest they will ask. You don�t need to beg and you don�t have to sound desperate.

As far as your nervousness goes, it�s common and understandable. Learn your trade well and have confidence and you�ll do fine. Remember it�s not a race. Because some have promoted to RVP in 4 months does not mean you have to. Have fun with your business and focus on staying in activity and not on the results. The results will come soon enough.

I didn't have time to read all of the posts but I am with you Dave. Sounds likes Shirles has issues that are beyond Arbonne. I applaud your setting her straight. Keep it up!
Are you married?
You sound like you would be the perfect husband.
Getting into Arbonne was the greatest decision I ever made. My husband was 100% against it and because he couldn't handle my choice, we are now separated. Arbonne has changed my life in ways I never could have imagined.
I am financially independent for the first time and well on my way to that Mercedes!
Thanks Dave and thanks Arbonne

Dave,

Isn't it absolutely true that the guy at the bottom is getting screwed? Seriously, how could it be otherwise? Someone WILL be at the bottom and they will get virtually nothing.

And the whole institute thing is a riot.
Comon, it's deception pure and simple. Telling half the truth and letting the consumer draw their own conclusion. I'm not saying Arbonne is good or bad based upon that, just that it is pretty funny.

I have nothing to gain or lose either way. I tried Excel and found it difficult to ask my friends and family to switch phone service while ignoring the deals they could get from other carriers. Sure, if they became Excel reps they could have gotten money from their own service but most didn't want to be bothered. And ultimately, I didn't blame them.

I don't doubt your succes. The money sounds nice. But, I don't envy it.

PS, all this "God Bless" crap being thrown about after lambasting someone is laughable. If ou truely mean "God Bless", say "Good luck and God Bless" and leave it at that. Don't be a patronizing jackass.

BTW, God Bless.

-Mike

Mike, I'm answering you. The above post is NOT from me. Some people are really sick..you know.

Hello!

I have a friend who is trying to get me involved with selling Arbonne. I purchased some products from her, and I do like them. However, I am also looking into other home-based businesses, many which are MLM organizations. I am speaking with a person this week who is involved with Traveling Vineyards. Does anyone know anything about this organization? If so, how would you compare this business opportunity with that of Arbonne?

Thanks!

A friend who's an Arbonne consultant yesterday gave me the impressive 2005 product catalogue with the beautiful orchid photo on the cover. The inside cover credit says it's a Cymbidium orchid that contains "Cymbidium Grandiflorm," a nourishing extract added to some Arbonne products. This, however, is not a Cymbidium orchid, but a Phalaenopsis or "moth orchid." And it's "Grandiflorum," not "Grandiflorm." Google the name and you can find pictures of the Cymbidium Grandiflorum on many orchid websites.

Folks, This evening I went on line to look at Arbonne, and after seeing the first couple of Google pages dominated by ads for Arbonne, I found this site's commentary.

First, I am not interested in MLM. I am fascinated from time to time in watching them, but not interested in doing it. Here, however, are some long developed observations:

1) MLM companies often poop out after explosive growth. They are sort of like many entertainers who spend time in smokey clubs or off, off, off, off Broadway for ten years before they hit it big. Then they get REAL big. And then they disappear. They worked hard to make it, but they've lost their appeal. Arbonne is 25 years old. Will it make 30? Lots of these companies explode after a long climb up, and then crash.

2)I have personally known probably 7-8 people who do (or did) MLM. Six didn't make it. Two marriages broke up related (but, of course, not entirely due to) MLM involvement. I saw some people get real religious and start going to church, until they didn't make it big in MLM.The two who have made it are a lady who works for Arbonne, and a lady who works for Longaberger. The Arbonne lady is some level of VP, whatever that means. She drives her Mercedes. Cool. Whatever. Her business fate is yet to be determined. Time will tell. The basket lady has been around for at least 15 years, and still sells her multi-hundred dollar baskets that are built like you can haul coal in them--but we (at least Americans, who can afford to buy such trivialities as decoration)don't haul coal in baskets anymore. If you can spend hundreds of dollars on several baskets just to sit around the house for "ambience" you either don't have money problems, or maybe you really DO!

3)These things are always based on going to conventions, getting the "rah-rah," and then going out and selling. Lately, the trend has been "rah-rah with warm fuzzies." They want to "share" these incredible products. Often they ARE very good products. In their day,AMWAY sold damned good soap! But there were other products that eventually overtook their products on quality and price. They tried to diversify, but who wants to buy a TV from AMWAY? Wal-Mart and Best Buy have them for less, and you don't have to join to get the discount!

4)I agree that there are folks who "have it" and folks who don't when it comes to selling. I think you need the right tools for the right product. For example, the Arbonne lady I know has always been gorgeous! I mean "model" gorgeous. She competed in "Mrs. USA." She's about 50 and looks 35. It's genuine. This is who she really is. You might say she's a "steel magnolia" because she has already been a succcessful business woman. If you look on the Arbonne sight, every one of the VPs is at least what most people would consider "pretty" and some are knockouts. (Except the ONE guy. I won't comment on HIS looks). Perfect people for a cosmetic company. When you look like that, you can sell cosmetics to a rattlesnake! The implication-- "You can look like me." The basket lady is about 55. She is a big woman, beehive hairdo, with a loud laugh. Even in her younger days, she was this big "Polish" lady who speaks her mind (her words). She's like someone's grandma or crazy aunt. She's a perfect basket sales person. Both of these gals are outgoing in their own ways, and have the appropriate tools, most of them, inborn natural.

5)People who sell are entrepreneurial (I may have mispelled this--but have mercy). They are outgoing, have the gift of gab, and have a way of winning people. Sometimes they are so "positive" it makes you want to barf. Some of these people really are nice folks. But what turns a lot of us off, is when we get into a forum like this, and the more often than not, the ones who have "made it" treat the rest of us like losers. Anyone with concerns or even fear are derided for being peons who will always be peons because they are "negative." These particular "winners" are snotty and arrogant. I've had MLMers tell me, with furrowed brow and voice of concern, that they are really "disapointed" that I wasn't ready to take (recieve, accept) this tremendous "opportunity" to "change my life." Thanks for the pity. I'll just go and crawl into my borrow now, and eat some grubs.

6)Finally, I have only met two people, mentioned above--who have, when asked what they do for a lving,tell me strait forward that they sell MLM---as in, that's ALL they do. The basket lady is a genuine "lifer." The Arbonne lady has had several successful businesses. More than any other factor, I think this says something about MLM. No matter how good the prodcut, or how sincere the company, MLM is no different than any other company. A few get rich and the rest...don't.

Bill

Dave, thanks, I'll await your comments.
Mic

Dave,
If you prefer to email me some advice instead of posting it here, that's fine. It seems like you and I may have similar business philosophies. My email is newkmail@yahoo.com.

I'll check back here for more info. too. I love hearing the success stories and can sympathize with those struggling too because such is life no matter what your profession. I admire those perseverant spirits.

Thanks again!

Dave scares me sometimes. He sounds really angry and defensive in some posts. My pastor's wife is now trying to get me to join Arbonne so I really appreciate all the posts (yes, including Dave's!!) but I am still incredibly wary. I haven't spoken to my pastor's wife in almost two years and out of nowhere she calls me (no, not to catch up on missed years - we were once really close) but to push me into Arbonne because it could help me get out of debt. WHAT?? I haven't decided one way or the other yet but it sure is fishy to me. I don't doubt AT ALL that people are making money and are successful w/this business but let history serve it's purpose in educating our futures...just like stated throughout this string, MLM just isn't for everyone. Too bad people are trying to push it on anyone and everyone. I wish Arbonne (and others) WOULD tell their people not to start w/friends, family, and fellow churchmembers because, like in my situation, the whole time I was getting the "pitch" yesterday, I just cried. Literally. It was such a slap in the face to not hear from someone for so long and then all of a sudden get an Arbonne business pitch. What a rip. Not that that is Arbonne's philosophy but when you are working to build on an MLM, people are driven to madness. Thanks for all the info. Still thinking.....

But Julia, did she end your conversation with "God Bless"? That always seems to fix everything up.

God Bless.

Mike

Mike, you crack me up! That is the sad truth though. No matter how you spin it or try to deny it, Arbonne (like every other product!) is going to try and deceive the few people who allow it. Honestly, that is a bit disturbing because any person w/common sense knows that Arbonne is out to market just like anybody else out there. They will tell you as little info as you need to draw your own conclusion (in their favor of course) esp. in regards to being manufactured (or formulated..whatever) in Swizterland and then when you say wait a minute! They will say "but we NEVER said it was in Switzerland!" Nevermind the fact that apparently there are PICTURES POSTED OF PEOPLE (well respected even!) WHO HAVE BEEN THERE! So nah nahnee boo boo... It all seems so...multi-level marketing-ish to me. Sigh.

http://www.goto.myarbonne.com/arbonne/goto.nsf/viewpage/1?Open&pagename=T1body.htm

"Formulated in Switzerland at our proprietary laboratory (AIRD = Arbonne Institute of Research and Development), our full-line of pure Swiss skin care products are still taking care of all ages and gender's skin!"

Proprietary laboratory = Sink in bathroom

God Bless

Mike

Mike, basically I think we should be friends and start our own proprietary laboratory in a toilet somewhere in Gotebo, Oklahoma. We could make it work if we get enough people to be our puppy dogs!
Dog Sselb

Angry?

Hardly. I'm laughing. A lot.

You're the angry one bud. You're angry because you were been duped in to believing Arbonne actually had a brick and mortar building with 10-12 R&D guys roaming the halls milking orchids and rubbing miracle creams on eager Swiss maidens.

YOU WERE READY TO PUT MONEY ON IT!

As I CLEARLY stated before, I'm happy for you. I have nothing to gain or lose.

Lighten up Francis.

And, of course, God Bless.

-Mike

I figure I'd better at least say hello Julia. So, here it is.

Hello Julia.

And Dog Ssleb yourself.

My wife sold Tupperware for a while and was quite good at it. It was/is a product she loves. I particularly like the fact that they'll replace lids and damaged parts FREE.

I wonder if Arbonne will offer some kind of face lift special if crows feet appear too early?

I won't hold my breath. I'll just use my Vaseline Intensive care lotion and keep the savings for elective surgeries.

Maybe I'll start my own Male Arbonne called Arbeau.

Puppy kits to include gift certificates to Arbys.

God Bless,

Mike

I just saw your last post Julia..and fair enough. I may be a bit too intense in dealing with your comments and I apologize if it sounds that way. There�s so much I could say in response to your unfortunate experience with your Pastor�s wife but I�ll resist the urge. And I wouldn�t be defending her either! There�s no excuse for not talking with you and discovering if there�s a need and a desire first before trying to propose ANY opportunity as a fit. As for humor, no one appreciates good humor more than I do. But I see much of what�s written intending to be funny as being intended to also persuade people to have fear, unfounded fear, about Arbonne.

Well, that's that. I think, like it has been said a million times in the posts above, that people who are interested in this and think they can succeed, should do it. And if not, then don't be sucked into anything just because of the so-called promises involved. It's just common sense. Thanks again for your help!

I can�t resist one more comment to you specifically Julia. So bear with me if you don�t mind. I really don�t take much of what is said here as a personal attack on me. But I don�t respond well to words like �Deceit� and �Sales Crap�; words that you used. �Deceit� to me implies there is a deliberate and immoral attempt to fool somebody. If you use that word you�re attacking somebody�s credibility. Maybe not me, but somebody. And �sales crap� means to me that you�re attacking the notion that there is a legitimate process or approach to sharing the product with people who might find value in it.

Words mean things and if you use them you have to accept that they will be interpreted according to what they mean.

I also would say that nobody in Arbonne should be making any promises apart from what the company authorizes and they definitely do not authorize making promises about income. I have tried to make the point, and probably not very well it seems, that while it�s true not everyone will succeed with Arbonne, it�s not the company or the products that will prevent that success. It might be your location, the lack of effective leadership locally, your own lack of effort or desire or yes, even your personality, but the company and the products are not the cause. Too many people are proving otherwise for that to be the case.

Hi Rich...
I read the article and while I'd love to challenge much of what was written there as it relates to Arbonne, obviously this isn�t the place. Suffice to say it makes an interesting argument, but not insurmountable (as it relates to Arbonne) by any means. Thanks for sharing!

I think it's safe to say we know what Dave thinks...and we know what Mike thinks. And God Bless 'em both LOL. But let's move on. Nothing new/insightful has been posted in quite a while. A fun thread while it lasted though!

btw MARY KAY RULES!!!!!!!!!!! haha.

Mike, Once again you�re making an argument just to be argumentative and you�re way off base with your �analysis� and you demonstrate that with your own words. I characterized Ed�s complaint this way: �The fact that Ed was disputing was whether they conduct their research in and testing in Switzerland�.� You quoted Ed as saying �My whole problem is that Arbonne represents themselves as a Swiss company with a laboratory in Switzerland and that is simply not the case.�

As you can plainly see, I didn�t mischaracterize Ed at all, and you know it. Ed was partially right on one point. He was wrong on the point above. I was partially wrong and I admitted it. And it�s true what I said. I saw a picture and made a conclusion on my own. No one said to me this is a picture of Arbonne�s private lab which they own.

I know you�re very impressed with yourself but you should know that your comments are neither informative nor entertaining.

HEY DAVE! WHAT ARE YOU DOING SPENDING YOUR ENTIRE DAY AT THIS SITE? I THOUGHT YOU WERE BUSY ENJOYING THE FRUITS OF YOUR LABOR. YOU ALL NEDD TO GET A LIFE AND MOVE ON FROM THIS ARBONNE STUFF.

Hello Dave,
You and your wife must be doing very well with Arbonne - you've got your team working for YOU and that's why you have time to respond to all the negativity that has been generated on this site lately. I, like others, have been on the fence about this company until I met NVP Sibley Gammon. I also personally know others in my city who are doing extremely well in this business. So I took the plunge and received my pups today and plan to follow the REsults Approach to the letter! Can't wait to get started...any pointers on the journey to the road to success would be greatly appreciated. Oh and by the way - to others who may be reading this entry and want to squash my ambitions - it has been my motto in life that in order to succeed in any business you must surround yourself with positive and successful people - so no hurling negative and insulting comments from the naysayers please. Dave, you are obviously successful in your endeavors and present a very positive position. So, with that said...your input is extremely valuable.

Hi Georgia Girl! You have a great upline in Sibley and I�m sure you�ll do well. She is a great example, as are many on her team, that it�s not fate that causes you to succeed or not succeed...it�s action; your OWN action. You�ll do great. My only advice is to work the Results Approach as your trained, but never count out the success others have had doing group presentations. Keep that door open because it is still a very viable and effective strategy in the right situations.

To Janea: I don�t think I disagree with you. I�m just wondering in what way you think anyone is trying to convince anyone. I am NOT trying to convince ANYONE to do this business. My purpose is only to defend the integrity of the company against the misinformation that the uninformed post here which may impact an individual�s ability to make the right choice. Unfortunately, the level of nastiness that has been displayed by some has made this effort much more serious than it should be. I do agree with you there.

I am a district manager with Arbonne and I have a book that you all should read. It's called Dare to Dream and Work To Win by Tom Barrett.
MLM may not be for all of you but if you hate it so much why are you spending so much of your time complaining about it? Just go back to your JOB where you work for someone else and let them determine your worth.
Thank you Dave for putting up with these people for as long as you have.

Addie

Hi Joel,
You�re right. I know lots of people with jobs who are quite fulfilled and happy. My best friend has a great job as a Senior Vice President for a major power utility company. I guess I�d only question if it�s those people, the happy ones, who are here on a crusade against network marketing and Arbonne. I�d say for the most part probably not. I think you can tell that by their choice of words. People who are content and fulfilled usually have the �to each his own� attitude and aren�t concerned about what other people do to make a living. That�s been my experience I�d say. So Addie is right to suggest they wouldn�t be here wasting their time. But that is just an opinion, I concede.
I�d also agree with your last point as I have often said we are interested in recruiting people into this business who do it because they love the business, enjoy the activity of promoting the products and are prepared to learn the skills necessary to train others to do the same rather than those who focus on how much money they might make. My wife and I love this business for many reasons beyond the income and would prefer this business to our previous business even if we didn�t make any more than what we did with our previous business.

And while I�m talking to you directly, I really appreciate your comments on all the other subjects on your site. I�d say you and I agree 99% of the time. So I�m asking for your forgiveness for my rush to judgment when I first found this thread and I called you a moron. I was wrong as obviously you�re not.

Well...I think my wife often complains of the same thing...so maybe we both are morons! Glad to know I'm not alone.

Hi Renee�Sorry to hear about division in your church. I�ve never heard of division in a church. (Just kidding of course) I can�t explain how that would happen except to chalk it up to human nature. You know; greed, jealousy, envy, coveting, etc. In a word that sums up the human condition: Sin. It�s shame, I agree. I will tell you this: it is not the money or the promise of money that caused this problem; it is, as Jesus said �The LOVE of money�� Please don�t blame Arbonne. The management would be just as horrified as you are. If you can identify the NVP above these people I�d contact her and tell her what�s going on. I�m sure she�d want to know.

As for your �overpriced� comment, I�ll ask you first, would you like an answer or are you just venting?

Yes..Julia...I concede you're right. It's no different though than if I opened a ..well, Pier 1, to use your example. I would tell you about it and ask you to come by sometime..but I wouldn't hound you to do so. People who do that are weak, desperate and just plain stupid, I agree. Over zealous recruiting is NOT what people are trained to do. They do it on their own and I don't think there's a way to stop it until those doing it realize the error of their ways. You have my permission to blast them! :-)

Truth: If you strip MLM of its hallmark activity of continuously reselling distributorships and examine its foundation, the one-to-one retailing of products to customers, you encounter an unproductive and impractical system of sales upon which the entire structure is supposed to rest. Personal retailing is a thing of the past, not the wave of the future. Retailing directly to friends on a one-to-one basis requires people to drastically change their buying habits. They must restrict their choices, often pay more for goods, buy inconveniently, and awkwardly engage in business transactions with close friends and relatives. The unfeasibility of door-to-door retailing is why MLM is, in reality, a business that just keeps reselling the opportunity to sign up more distributors.

Kinger,

While I would love to offer a more comprehensive response to your post, as there are many ideas to contrast your basic point, I�ll keep it to just a couple of thoughts (if I can.)

First, I really don�t think �brainwashed� is the right word. Brainwash means, according to my dictionary, �make someone adopt radically different beliefs by using systematic and often FORCIBLE pressure. [Caps my addition] Are you really suggesting that network marketers are engaging in FORCIBLE pressure or making someone adopt RADICALLY different beliefs? Again, I�ll speak from an Arbonne perspective, but people are coming into this business basically for two reasons and neither have anything to do with force. Some come into the business because they experience a positive, sometimes significantly positive, result from the products. They, being impressed with the product, understand that many others will react as such and that a DEMAND is therefore created that they can fill as a distributor. In other words, they see an opportunity to benefit from the quality of the products as will their satisfied customers. The second motivation is closer to your point; they see the potential for making a significant income and radically changing their lifestyle. But no one is being brainwashed into this thinking. They are CONCLUDING this is possible based on the evidence, i.e. experience of others who have actually done so. I agree with you the work is hard at times; not complicated but hard, but I also take issue that is isn�t fun. Whether it�s fun or not is based on your attitude. The NFL is back to training camp as I write this. NFL training camp, especially in the heat of summer, is HARD, exhausting and even stressful for the players and coaches, but would anybody say the players aren�t having fun? They�re doing what they love to do. They�re preparing to play a game and make a lot of money for playing it. Yeah, it�s hard. But it�s still part of the fun of being a pro athlete. I went though U.S. Army boot camp. It was hard. It was at times humiliating. But it was, in total, fun! I think people who really want to have a meaningful life realize the most fun is when you are overcoming obstacles and achieving difficult goals. Did you ever play a difficult game? Was it not fun? Wow...there is so much more to say about this.

Also, Kinger, I think you�re wrong on your opinion of face-to-face selling. I think consumers really WANT competent personalized service. They�re just used to NOT getting it. But if they don�t want it, Arbonne offers convenient on line or toll free ordering. We rarely contact our regular customers but 3 or 4 times a year. Usually we simply send an invitation to an Open House or mail a special offer. Our regular customers just order on line when they need something; easier than going to the mall, in fact. (It�s why offering consumable products is so critical) You�re making an assumption that Arbonne customers really don�t want the stuff, they just buy it because they feel they have to, or because they�re helping someone out. My experience is our customers WANT the stuff. If they don�t �so be it.

And lastly, I take issue with your statistics because in regards to Arbonne they are wrong. The averages are on the Arbonne website. If you take those in Arbonne making the �big money� (the VPs) the number is 7% of the total. And the average income, not including retail profits a consultant may earn for those actually trying to build a business, is much higher than you suggest. For those consultants who have achieved the level of District Manager and above, the average is over $9000 per month. But even if you just take District and Area Manager levels, and assume every one of these will never rise above that level, the average is over $900 per month. (No guarantees are being offered here, check Arbonne.com for more info.) $900 a month for many is a pretty good addition with still the potential for doing more in time.

Final thought: You don�t have to be number ONE to be a winner. Denis Waitley says (I�m paraphrasing here) winning isn�t always coming in first. Sometimes winning is coming in FOURTH, exhausted and completely spent, when last time you came in FIFTH.

I should have added...the promise of network marketing is NOT equal results. It's equal opportunity.

So C&D... Do you really think anybody cares who I am? What's the point? Why are you so afraid of YOUR name?

Dave,

Clearly you stand to gain through the pyramidal structure as more people continue to join Arbonne . So you have a vested interest in defending the "opportunity" here as not to taint the potential downline. The success of any MLM depends wholly on a uninformed population. The last thing you want to see is a forum where people can learn that what you're going to tell them may not be true. Which explains why you never seem to have said enough to make your point. You literally can't afford not to respond to any negative comment posted here.

For all your efforts to distance Arbonne from the negative aspects of other MLM companies, you cannot even avoid using the formulaic, scripted arguments previously developed by those same organizations in your defense of it.

Arbonne tries very hard to appear as the moral and ethical superior to other MLM opportunities in it's initial presentation, but quickly reveals itself to be no different through their subsequent tactics. You are almost immediately fed rationales for doing the very things they claim they don't require or encourage.

You are immediately encouraged to purchase business aids to help you achieve success quicker, as well as $250 worth of product to become familiar with what you're selling. You'll hear about new official Arbonne training seminars starting this October for $75 a consultant. You are offered incentives to purchase inventory within your first two months because of a limited time discount, but of course are not required to. You're told that no business can be expected to succeed without some financial commitment. It is implied that you aren't serious enough about success if you aren't willing to spend some of your own $$$ to get to DM as quickly as possible. You are told to make a "hot" list of 100 of your closest friends and family to pitch the opportunity to. The focus quickly shifts from distributing the "superior" products to sponsoring new consultants and encouraging them to buy RE9 sets to generate income for the upline.

Arbonne is careful to insulate itself from proof that they employ these standard MLM tactics. They only become apparent AFTER you become a consultant and are "on board". That way, people like Dave can deny that you'll ever be encouraged to pay for training, make volume purchase etc... You'll find no evidence of those things on their official site. In fact the amount of space used on their site in trying to overcome the negative stigma should be reason enough to be suspicious. Why did they select a model with no many negative perceptions to begin with?

The goal, of course, is to get the new consultant to generate as much money for the upline as quickly as possible, before they begin to feel that they are spending too much of their own money to be on the "fast track." It's the constant rotating consultants at the bottom that are generating all the profits. You won't find any statistics to at Arbonne's web site to illustrate how much revenue was generated by consultants that only lasted 2 or 3 months, but spent an average of $500 before the quit.

And spare me the "those that fail don't understand the opportunity", "aren't serious about success" , "don't have what it takes". The only reason to use an MLM to distribute products is because you're banking on those failures. Especially since we now know that Arbonne simply bought a series of prepared formulas from Arval Swiss Cosmetics and the right to brand, manufacture, and sell them however they want. It's pretty clear that the product is secondary to the MLM money making machine.

Arbonne is not the first MLM to try to spin the concept into something pure and magical. Yet another way they prove to be unoriginal. They are atypical of the modern MLM.

Wow. Now I�m scared! Someone has discovered my secret. I�m afraid people will read these negative comments and the whole company will collapse into dust. You got it!

I actually don�t have to respond to your comments, C&D, because they were just repeats of what we�ve heard before. Nicely regurgitated, but regurgitated just the same. I�m seriously getting bored now.

I wish you people who have taken up an offense against Arbonne and network marketing, hoping to save the world I guess, would do two things. First, tell me how else the average person can build a successful (profitable) business without huge amounts of capital, very little risk, no overhead, no employees and no special qualifications. Give me just ONE possibility? And secondly, if you�re really sincere in your efforts to save the little people from making the mistake of wasting money on a dubious promise, why aren�t you likewise fighting for the elimination of legalized gambling and state lotteries? I�d be pretty sure the amount WASTED, by people who can ill afford it and hoping for that big score that never comes, dwarfs, I mean DWARFS the losses for those who fail in network marketing. Somebody is getting rich off these people. I would think you�d be outraged!!

Okay, C&D, we get it, you have an axe to grind. I hope you feel better now. I�ll look for your comments on an Anti-Gambling blog real soon.

dave, how much does Arbonne pay you to sit and reply to all of these comments? It must be a lot because you continually stay and reply over and over even after you claim to be bored.

C & D
Great comments . . . keep spreading the word on these ridiculous MLM scammers! Eventually they will have to share the wealth of the meager "7%" with the thousands of others spending money instead of making it.

By the way . . . ever notice that people that are liars are always sooooo defensive! :-)

Dave,

You continue to attack the attacker and not the attacks, and become more caustic and insulting as you do. It's clear that if anyone doesn't believe in the opportunity, then they are to be lambasted with "petty" and "vindictive" assaults.

You really do nothing to advance your arguments with your behavior.

I thinks it's sad that you don't even realize how desparate you sound. That my dislike of Arbonne doesn't translate into a hatred of you. Try to remove your psyche from the hive for a moment, if you can. I'm challenging Arbonne, not everything you stand for as an individual. Yet, you have become so mean and abusive over something that should only be a small aspect of your life. Are you hearing yourself?

It's not my mission to destroy you or Arbonne. Only to continue to offer an opposing viewpoint. since you seem determined to attack those who disagree, until they leave this forum at least.

I believe your approach and what you have written here says far more about the dangers of what MLM can do to your outlook on life. And just how much confidence and diversion is employed by those selling the dream. So, post on. Insult and dismiss away... because those outside the circle are not to be believed or trusted.

Wow.

WHY IS EVERYONE ATTACKING DAVE? LEAVE THE MAN ALONE. I HAVEN'T NOTICED THIS BEING MENTIONED BEFORE, BUT STAY TUNED TO "OPRAH" IN SEPT, SHE IS HAVING AN ENTIRE EPISODE DISCUSSING THE ARBONNE CO. MAYBE YOU ALL SHOULD JUST WAIT AND SEE FOR YOURSELVES WHAT THIS COMPANY IS ABOUT.

I JUST WANT TO ADD THIS IN FOR YOU DAVE, I USE THE ENITRE RE9 LINE AND THERE IS NOTHING OUT THERE COMPARABLE. I ALSO LOVE THE BABY LINE.

Hey Julia,
I will accept that your advice is sincere. But I have some problems with what you say that illustrates exactly the kind of thing I�ve been trying to point out to people who post here. Even in your suggestion that I�m too angry and I should go away you reveal your bias, include negative innuendo and make statements that are not supported by the facts. I�m just asking that people, in the vernacular, �KEEP IT REAL.� But I guess that�s proving impossible.

In all my participation here I have only responded to others comments. I did not START any of the �arguments�. So here again, I will respond to what you say. Not because I�m angry, but because you, like C&D, must be completely blind to the meaning of what you write.

First, how can you possibly say I have not been personally attacked? I�ve been called, either directly or by association, a liar (several times), somebody who�s been duped, a �plant� from the company, untrustworthy, a �get rich quick� person, someone who should be ashamed of himself, etc. And that doesn�t include any thing C&D said.

Second you say I have �plenty to say against others� professions�. I do? Where? I�ve never said anything against others� professions. In fact, I�ve said the opposite. I may have reacted negatively to someone who says network marketers should just �get a job.� But I appreciate people who are content in their jobs. I�m glad my mechanic isn�t quitting to go start a home business; likewise, my doctor, my plumber, my daughter�s teachers, the police in my community and on and on. I specifically said we need people who like their jobs. So how do you make that characterization? I just don�t get it.

You may be right that people are reading this to get both sides of an argument. But if so, don�t they deserve to get a balance and clarification of the facts? In all my posts you cannot find one example of me responding in a mean spirited manner when the question or the comment was legitimate and asked without some backhanded comment intended to demean somebody. Throughout this thread when consultants have posted their positive experiences they have been met with ridicule and insult in some form by those on your side of the argument. Is that your idea of a getting BOTH sides?

But I even take issue with that characterization of anything I�ve written. I�m not trying to be mean, although you may interpret it that way or get that impression because of your bias against my position or your bias against network marketing. If you read through my comments to C&D you would plainly see that my comments were intended to be instructive to her, and others, in revealing her true meaning and showing that, in reality, her actions against me and her statements were the �mean� ones cloaked in a polite manner.

If C&D had posted her �beef� with Arbonne in a way that way that would have been helpful, I would not have responded the way I did. But she started her participation here with an attack against me (revealing identity) and then she launched into her long complaint with the clear intention to ridicule. But even then I didn�t respond. I just said her comments had mostly been answered.

I think, Julia, you�re guilty of selective reading. You read what you like and ignore the details of what I write because you disagree. �Keep it real� and whether you agree with me or not I�ll respect you 100%. Lie about me and I�ll challenge you every time.

I could not agree more.

Dave, thank you so much for all of your comments. I read your wife's story and I am inspired.

Arbonne is an amazing company with awesome products and I do feel blessed for signing up. But, as mentioned before, it and MLM is not for everyone. I find it very strange, however, that some posts mention the words "scams", "deceit", and "that only a small percentage will make the amount of money" that Dave's wife and others are making in Arbonne. But, that is true in every industry. How many people in most companies make a large amount of money? How many presidents work for a corporation? If I work harder than the president in a corporation, will my checks reflect it? The answer is NO!! But at Arbonne and other MLM, your success is based on you (and those you sponsor). That is not true in most other jobs. If I recommend (sponsor) someone for a position, and they are hired, I may get a one-time bonus, but that's it. No matter how well this person may do in this position, I receive the one time bonus. Also, there is no glass ceiling and no corporate politics with Arbonne.

Arbonne nor MLM may not for you and that's fine. But don't try to dissuade others from even exploring the opportunity. I am sure everyone is intelligent enough to do research before committing to anything.

Blade

You serious folks that have a dream,please ignore people like Dave who post their negative out of envy or because they get paid to post.
Protect your thoughts, focus on your dreams, and keep moving ( posted by a dream builder not associated with Arbonne).
KG

http://www.vandruff.com/mlm.html

This is a must read!!!
Like it. Love it. Live it, is right!

. . . and a big thanks to Joel for this blog site!!

I just read through the site that Julia provided about MLMs (http://www.vandruff.com/mlm.html) and I concur with her that it's a must read for anyone contemplating a MLM career (I certainly am not . . . but many years ago I was involved with Amway and Herbalife). Anyway, after reading what was on that site I could definitely relate to the info.

As for the wife and I, we'll probably continue struggling through life with products prescribed by our doc or if it's an over-the-counter product that's needed, we'll just head down to our 24-hour Wal-Mart.

As for any MLMer . . .good luck! . . . there's a good chance you'll need it!

Hi Ralph,

You bring up a couple of points that maybe I can explain a bit differently to give you a different perspective. However, it�s hard on a blog like this to do so effectively without writing something that is way too long, but I�ll see if I can keep it short but still keep it useful.

First, I can tell you those who rave about the products are not �Stepfords�. I really encourage your wife to at least try the products, either by a sample pack or a full system trial. (You might want to try the men�s products too for you own experience.) Obviously if she sees no benefit after trying the products I wouldn�t expect her to buy it. But most people who try the products do, in fact, report that it makes a huge difference in both the appearance of their skin and how it makes the skin feel. I would also say my experience is that most of the people coming into this business have no previous MLM experience and come into the business specifically because of the profound improvement they experience using the products. But I will add that not everyone is an Arbonne customer no matter how good the product works. If you�re the kind that always buys things according to the cheapest you can find, regardless of quality, than you�d probably not be an Arbonne customer. I don�t mean that as an insult, I just mean some people are happy to get by with spending less and sacrificing better quality. For instance, for some food is food and they�d rather buy a steak dinner at Cracker Barrel for $12 than a steak dinner at Ruth�s Chris for $60 and see no difference. But of course there really IS a difference. Arbonne�s products are certainly premium grade. They use ingredients that can cost 100 times the cost of those Walmart products ingredients so obviously it will affect the price to the end user.

In addition to the cost of manufacturing is the cost of distribution. Compare Arbonne to other companies in their industry and you�ll discover that their cost of distribution is actually lower than the competitors who you find in the department stores. Arbonne�s cost of distribution is entirely what they pay out to consultants and not to advertisers, freight companies, distributors and their sales staff, and retailers (who pay salaries from the profits.) So what consultants earn is not a factor in price relative to comparable products. Every company must get the product to market in some method and I can�t think of a way that would not involve a cost. Furthermore, those in the business making significant overrides are making it on the volume of sales, not from the one sale to you or any other single person.

All of the above is true for any business model and not just MLM companies.

Now, in regard to this article you and Julia linked to, I obviously can�t go thru the whole thing. Except for the beginning discussion on the concept of saturation, the rest of it is pretty worthless. It�s really nothing more than a litany of bad experiences that could have been avoided if the characteristics of what to look for I described earlier had been applied. The writer�s discussion of materialism is misguided at best. I�d love to address the saturation issue but it would take too long so I�ll recommend a book, for those who are worried about it, where this �theory� is debunked very effectively. The book is �The New Professionals� by Professor Charles W. King and James W. Robinson. Even if you just read the sections dealing with the saturation issue you�ll gain a good understanding of the weakness of the argument in the article linked to in the above posts.

This reading has definitely been a fun read for some good laughs. Yes, I am an Arbonne consultant, have been for 2 years. Love the stuff and am concerned with all the questionable/harmful ingredients in personal products.

I was told in the beginning: "If you think you can do this business, you're right. If you think you can't do this business, you're right". It is all in how you think.

Hi Gloria, I'm sure someone else could answer your questions as well, including the product support people at Arbonne. You should email them with your questions. As far as All Natural goes, the skin care products are not advertised as all natural because Arbonne does use small amounts of certain proven safe chemicals for preservatives. It's critcally important that products that come in contact with the skin are free of bacteria and "all natural" products leave open the door for such problems. Ask your sister if she'd let you view the Product Knowlege modules on the Arbonne University series at the Arbonne web site. Candace Keefe goes over this in much detail. You need to be a consultant to view that area however. Also, your sister should provide sell sheets for any product you'd like ingredient info or they're online as well. The size of the bottle or jar has a lot to do with concentration levels. Arbonne's products are highly concentrated and you may find they last just as long as larger amounts of other products. Best regards as you make your decision.

So, WOW! I have sat here reading all of these postings and found it a bit addictive. I am an Arbonne consultant and have fallen into success. I am still trying to figure out how. My "why" has always been about helping others as the products helped myself and my son with his eczema. To go into this with stars in your eyes seems like the wrong approach to me. I am in this because I believe in it, not to make a fast buck. It is difficult, time consuming and gut twisitng. I would have left already had I not believed so strongly in the products benefits. So forget the BS of all of this. You may get rich here or you may fail. If you know in your heart that you are doing something that is good, and good for yourself,forget the rest. I question this job everyday, but what it comes back to is my belief. I believe in the product, myself and the opportunity. Good luck to everyone!

Dave,
I'd like to take this opportunity to applaud you. I have honestly been impressed with your ability to respond rationally and defend (not because you were asked to or paid to) something that you believe in so strongly (I am referring to the company, product & opportunity). My wife and I have been coming back to read this blog periodically for a little over a month and it never ceases to amaze me how much people have to say here. My wife is Jen, she posted her thoughts and feelings about her Arbonne experience in the middle of July. I, for one, was very proud of her comments and the fact that she so openly shared her feelings knowing that someone would most likely respond negatively (which Darla did in such a disrespectful manner). I also want to thank you for defending the words of my wife, you were right when you said, "People say those things because they are true". I was floored when I saw that her most sincere words were trampled on and disregarded so rudely. I was particularly touched that you were able to defend her position for a number of reasons, #1 we have never met, #2 we are not a part of your direct organization or �downline� if you will, #3 and by far the most important, at the very moment in which Darla was (as I put it earlier) trampling on the most sincere words of my wife, she was in labor with our 4th child (he is beautiful by the way, as were the other 3) and for the past 3 weeks, we have been focusing on what matters most to us (our family) rather than attempt to respond to the petty comments that were made against her and her personal experience. What I am trying to say is THANK YOU & I hope that the most recent negativity in this blog has not discouraged you (it sure doesn�t appear to have) or anyone else who has been reading it. I don�t want you to feel alone in your position, I think that many more Arbonne Independent Consultants of many levels are reading these posts but are pleased with the way that you are responding and therefore do not respond themselves.
As far as our situation goes, (not to repeat to much of what my wife said previously) we do feel blessed with this opportunity at this time. Quitting my fulltime job working for other people (and making them very wealthy by the way, as I am considered an expert in a field in which this company has the market cornered) was a very difficult decision. My wife mentioned that we �took all of our savings out and took a leap of faith�, we did so in order to focus our efforts in other areas not because we had to make a large investment to start this business, in fact it was a very small investment that we have made back many times over in a very short period of time, and it wasn�t anything even close to some of the figures that others had spoke of previously. Arbonne was & is not our only plan of action but with the results that we have seen from her efforts thus far we feel very confident that Arbonne will be a very instrumental vehicle in getting us to where we want to be (no pun intended, I�m not referring to a Mercedes although it won�t be long before my wife gets hers and I am not far behind).
In closing, I just want to say thank you again Dave & have great trip to Hawaii, I�ll be sure to go with you on the next one!

Mitch

I have been thinking about becoming a consultant and have read this entire page. So I have read the pros and cons of mlms and I feel confident I can make my choice wisely.
There has been some comments made that I would like to have feedback on.

#1 Can you be a consultant without signing others as consultants.I would like to consentrate on marketing the product.From what I read it seems that you NEED to sign up 4-5 consultants quickly. Will you be terminated if you don't focus on reqruitment?

#2 Can you move up the ladder by selling the products only or can you only move up by signing on new consultants?

#3 Puppy Kits? you give a person a $266 kit, they try it for a few days and hopefully they can't live w/o it. If they can live without it they give it to you back. You give it to someone else to try. Hygenically safe? what if the packaging is damaged? products missing? replaced with Oil of Olay? etc.

Laura

Hi Laura, As you know I answered your email, but for others who read your note I�ll post some brief answers.

#1 Absolutely no termination for not sponsoring! You can sign up and just buy product as needed or you can buy product to sell at retail. You're never terminated unless you don't pay your $15 annual renewal or you repeatedly violate company policy. If you're trying to build a network to take advantage of leveraging, i.e. getting paid a percentage on the efforts of others you've trained, then you need to sponsor people directly to you. But there's no time table. Marketing the product is the BEST way to signup new consultants and business builders anyway so you might find a great deal more success sponsoring if you're actively selling product. You need to sell product but also be on the lookout for those who would like to do what you do.

#2 You move up based on sales volume in your "successline"; Arbonne�s term for those signed up under you and those signed up below them and so on. If your volume is generated entirely by yourself then you could probably get to District Manager, maybe even Area Manager, but beyond that it would be hard to maintain the amount necessary each and every month without the volume of those under you contributing to your total.

#3 This actually was big issue just recently as the subject has come up. To do the REsults Approach you do need to make sure you pretty much trust the person and know how to contact them. As far as the sanitation issue goes, the bottles having pumps you need to be wiped down with alchohol before transferring to another client. I think someone suggested there's talk of Arbonne making Night Cream samples available in singles and we hope that happens because the Night Cream is the biggest problem since in the normal jar the product is exposed when opened. Arbonne is recommending we use the sample packs for the night cream.

Kerry,

I am happy for your success with Arbonne. But I need to set the record straight on a few things.

I NEVER said I didn't like Arbonne! I said that I didn't like the way they run their business online. How so?

1) I was told by an NVP that I could create a web site to sell. Turned out to be wrong.

2) Early consultants have been allowed to continue creating their own sites, creating an unfair advantage.

3) Arbonne takes money from people for a service that they cannot use. (search engine submission, etc...)

Arbonne IS expensive. And it has to be in order for the business model to survive. But I don't begrudge them that. I buy the stuff for my wife and she loves it!

Finally, it would not be STEALING leads to build a quality site to promote Arbonne as a business and product. It would be the free market allowing those who perform best to reap the rewards. It has nothing to do with the "best servers". It has to do with marketing.

If you are servicing your customers properly, why would they come to my site? Building a quality Arbonne site is about getting NEW customers.

Anyhow, I just wanted to make things clear.

Congratulations on your upcoming Hawaiian residence. I'm sure you've worked hard for it and it will undoubtedly be a great second home.

Joel

Arbonne consultants,

My boyfriend's ex-wife has just started mentioning her Arbonne experience to us. She gave me some samples last night, and I just tried them today, so no official results yet in what I think, but I'm sure I'll like them.

We are considering getting involved, but here are my questions:

1. I'm still foggy on the sales only aspect. Can you only make money with sales-only if you are selling retail? Meaning, if I sell to someone and get them to sign up to get the discount, I won't receive commission on their purchases? Please clear that one up for me.

2. There's all this talk of area. If I'm going to interest some of my friends or family, they all live in other areas of the state, and some even further. Do they get sponsored by someone more local to them? Is the area thing figurative rather than physical?

3. I understand that the point of the car is the pride of the achievement and all, but I'm really not interested in it. I'm just not a car person. Is there an alternative compensation?

Feel free to email me with responses.

Dave, stop writing the diatribes responding to the naysayers. If people are turned off by the idea, they will say whatever it takes to bash it and get under the believers' skin. They have accomplished that with you, and by responding, you are only proving that your buttons have been pushed and fueling their fire. Those of us who are interested in getting factual information will weed the gossip from the truth and make up our own minds on whether it is for us or not. Just had to get that in there, you're doing a great job explaining things otherwise!

Listen:

Can't we all just get along?? The problem with most people is that they are unhappy with thier life and their job. Living pay check to pay check. What is wrong with taking a risk (and a very small financial risk at that) as compared to owning other types of business'. Please people dare to dream and have the guts to follow your dream. God Bless America!

One bad thing about this company is the Atrocious shipping charges.
1 little 2 ounce tube of oil was 7.00 to ship.
We still havent recieved our product and
our show was closed 12 days ago.

I could could order pampered chef and that shipping would cover a whole collection of stones and pots for only 3.25 and we always recieve it in days.

Everyone at the show we went to are furious. Most will be returning their items.

Sorry, folks...that was JOHN T. Reed's opinion above and not Tom Reed.

I used to be involved with Arbonne, until the dangling carrot ruined friendships and has come into our church faster than sharing Jesus with the lost.

Terri,
I'm just curious, how did it ruin friendships at church? Were consultants competing with eachother?

Well, I started my arbonne business with my friend, who is also my pastors wife. We both started doing it for the same reasons, helping women. I was also lured by the fact that it was a Christian run business.
It was when reaching the next level and reaching the next dangling carrot when we parted ways. I didn't like that all my friends and fellow church family became the lead field.
I started seeking the Lord for insight. One day I prayed that He would help me understand what I was going through. I went online and found two books written by a pastors wife who had experienced the same things that I was feeling.
Athena Dean writes "All that glitters is not God" and Consumed by success, getting to the top and finding God is not there".
So I ordered them and they hit the nail on the head for me. After approuching her about this, we have never spoken. She now an RVP and drives the Mercedes.
I have chalked it up as a learning experience and know that God has a plan just for me.
The area I live is now full of Arbonne sales reps and many people I know have left the church I attend, have become very unhappy about the way she is so focused on it, all comsuming. I even had a lady ask me how the Mercedes ministry at my church was going. I could have just died. I have resigned to know that I did what I was supposed to do and get out. I pray for her often and do love her greatly, but struggle with the whole thing of being obsessed with building our riches here on earth instead in heaven.
Many opportunites to sell Arbonne are take priority over the opportunity to share Jesus instead.

Terri,
What you describe is unfortunate and I�m sorry for the loss of a relationship you once cherished. I hope however, you�re not saying that pursuing making a living, or maximizing your income by choosing a different way to make a living is to be considered immoral. There�s no doubt that pursuit of riches for the sake of riches is not useful and can lead to all kinds of unfortunate behavior, but riches themselves are not immoral. What most people don�t realize is that having money does not change a person, but it often gives one the power to amplify the person they already were. For every person you find who is using Arbonne as means to selfishly enrich themselves, I can find many who are using Arbonne as a means to give them the freedom and power to serve others in ways they never could because of the restrictions of working a job or profession. We have doctors in Arbonne who now travel to third world countries to provide medical services for free since their Arbonne income freed them from their practice. We have other Arbonne VPs who are supporting family members who are ill or injured and can�t work and we have many who use sizable portions of their income to give to those in need. I don�t really want to see Joel�s blog turn into a discussion on the Bible, but the Bibles I own do not teach that it�s wrong to be rich or become rich. It does teach it is wrong to put riches above a desire for or a pursuit of holiness. Your friend will one day discover the error of her attitude no doubt.

Well�if you�re not going to check back Reader, no need to waste my time responding. Plus, I'm sure most would agree with me that there's nothing of value to respond to anyway.

My experience is just that, mine. No one can change how it effected me personally. You are correct, the Bible says that the love of money is the root of all evil. The difference is the motivation behind how we view money and possessions. Why and what do we do along the way to get them and what do we do with them once we recieve them. I can not apologize for my references in the Word of God, I didn't write them, but I live my life for Jesus. He says that we are here for two reasons, to know Him and to make Him known. That is what everyhing else we do here on this earth is to lead to. He is the provider of all our wealth and possessions with or without us pushing some products down all of our friends and family's throats. Are we winning people to Christ by doing it. I am so glad that you know people that are putting their income from Arbonne to work in their lives to be able to share their God given talent with 3rd world countries. I too, have been to 3rd world countries, to do the Lord's work there. He supplied for all of my needs to get there to do His will, not mine.
I'm not saying anything against Arbonee itself, just MLM mentality that people get caught up in that takes over their mind, actions and lives.
Many people like myself spent lots of money being lured into beliving that we could fulfill our worldly dreams, it just is so deceptive. The stats of MLM people making any real money is staggering, less than 1%. The takes that I listened to actually told me that if any friends and family weren't supportive to get rid of them from our lives, because they were negative. That is mind control, and many people fall into this life style looking for something to fulfill them. Only Jesus can fulfill our emptiness. He is all I need, Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the live" never did He say Arbonne or MLM.

I really have to take issue with the idea that Arbonne is a �Christian led� company. I have never heard that and there is nothing in Arbonne literature that touts that. In fact, they make every effort to keep religious faith out of the official conversations about the company. While it�s true many devoted Christian people are involved and it�s true many apply their faith to the way they run their business, it is NOT a �Christian� company.

Look, here�s the simple truth about business, ANY business: A business exists for the sole purpose of providing a solution to the customer. A business does not exist, or thrive, for the purpose of making someone rich. That may be the result if there�s enough people who need your solution, but it is not the purpose. You succeed in MLM, or any business, by providing a solution to someone�s need. For those who don�t find the products or the business opportunity that Arbonne offers a solution to a need, than so be it. I have no problem with that. I only have been interested in defending Arbonne to the extent that for SOME it offers solutions. That�s not my opinion, it�s the truth based on the facts.
Zig Ziegler says �You can have whatever you want if you help enough people get what THEY want�. That�s the attitude and motivation for ANY successful business.

And Terri, I have no problem with your Christian faith. If you believe that God calls you to do something other than Arbonne that�s great. Do what you feel you�re led to do but don�t feel jealousy or righteous indignation toward those who feel God provided the opportunity to solve THEIR problems, whatever they may be. If you think someone you know has the wrong motivations then talk to them about it instead of criticizing and lumping every business person together and suggesting we�re all greedy and un-Christian.

I apologize for offending anyone here with my Christian beliefs. Where I am Arbonne is totally driven as being solid, moral and Christian organization even though Arbonne itself does not. Here it is taken over our church and other churches with the expectation of making it rich and living a certain lifestlye.
As a follower of Christ, we are called to preach the gospel of Christ, in all we say and do. My current business filled a need for people, but Jesus opened the door for me to offer this service at a means to preach the gospel to the lost and dying world. As a reward, I make money to live on. He promises to provide for our every need, not our every want.
I just returned from a 3rd world country to share the love of Christ and eternal life with Him there. It really changed how I see the way we make money, why we make money and what we do with it. We are the richest country in the world and only peanuts are spent to help those in need.
I have spoken with my friend, but she in so deep she can not see the truth.

Terri...Here's my story. I am a mininsters wife, my husband has been a youth minister for 18 years. I have been an Arbonne consultant for over a year. I have experienced some success. When I first started my business I asked some friends over from church...it was great at first but after awhile I could tell that I was isolating some people. I realized that church is not the place for business. I now do not work my Arbonne business with the people at church. I get out of my house and hand out demo kits and make appointments with people from leads from clients.
I want you to know that several of the Area Managers on my team are doing Arbonne so that they can be fully self supporting missionaries in Thailand, Africa, and the US. I do Arbonne because I want to stay home with my children and I want to help people financially. I was in car sales before Arbonne...go figure. My dream is for my team to build a Habitat for Humanity house. I hold the money loosely. I want my integrity to be very apparent. I want people to know that I cherish them more than the sale. The business of Arbonne has given me more freedom than any other job I've ever had.

Good advice too, Rachel. (I love how I'm the comment girl).. I have nothing valid to add to this site. I'm actually laughing out loud at myself for responding to everyone at this point. Anyhoo, good luck to everyone, Arbonne or no Arbonne.

I have had similar experience with isolation from others and push push push to sell, sell, sell to get to the next level at any expense.
There are lots of other ways to make money and maintain your integrity.

Battle of the Sexes?

Ouch. I could have guessed that an MLM specializing in skin care and consmetics, males would naturally be under-represented. Sure enough...

Out of 21 "New" National Vice Presidents, 1 is male. Of a larger number of archived NVP's, it looks like either 1 or 2 are male.

Out of 21 "New" Regional Vice Presidents, again, 1 is male. Only something like 18 to 20 of somewhere around 770 archived RVPs are male (interestingly, guys named "Joey" occur with surprising frequency; unless that can be a woman's name(?)).

While it's obvious this isn't discrimination, I suspect we'd be hearing about it if the sexes were reversed. Be that as it may, it certainly seems likely to be somewhat of an uphill battle for the guys, since we don't really use many of these products and might find it awkward to attempt to instruct more experienced women in their use (if it comes to that). Besides, while we might like to, most males probably don't have as strong a social relationship with nearly as many women as women are likely to have with women. Otherwise, who knows there may be an advantage (though none come to mind that I would wager on).

Any thoughts?

Rachel,

Thank you! This is the kind of thing those of us wanting to start Arbonne need to hear. This forum has been full of battles about everything from MLM to the existence of labratories to the role of the church in the company!

I came here to find out as much about the process as possible. Do I want to sell it, what is the success rate, how do I build a business without approaching my close friends and family first. I'm trying to make an important decision that can mean anything from just making enough money to finance my wedding to being a stay at home mom when that time comes.

The fact that MLM is risky is a given. The fact that success will take hard work is a no brainer. What we need in this forum is information on the tips and techniques that will make us successful. If I'm already involved in researching, I'm obviously not walking into this with my head in the clouds hoping for a get rich quick.

Sidenote: Does anyone in here know anything about Arbonne's saturation on the east coast? I live near Philadelphia and last month was the first I'd ever heard about it.

Please keep the selling tips advice coming!!

Bob,

The information you�re looking for would be very interesting, I agree. I just have no idea how to get it. Some you could get very easily as it is available at the Arbonne web site, but most of what you ask is not published to my knowledge.

Leah,
I'll be a real straight shooter with you. I'll help answer any questions that I can.
In watching Arbonne explode in growth this past year I can see that some core ideas have begun to shift and it makes me wary. I'll still work my business in such a manner that will continue to give my team the best foundation possible. I personally don't believe it is in buying management levels. It's in selling a great product along side showing others that they can do this too. You have to EARN the Management levels not BUY them.
When you decide to start your Arbonne business, always do what is going to be comfortable for your family financially.
And this is so important...no matter what level the person that you are signing up under...District Manager, Area Manager, Executive National Vice President...make sure that they are working. Working means selling product. If they are just signing people up for the "Business". RUN AWAY. If they expect you to buy a huge amount of inventory for "demo-kits". Huge is over $1000. RUN AWAY. The only way you can be really successful in Arbonne is to sell product. If they aren't selling product then how can they teach you. If they aren't willing to teach you then they aren't a good leader. In Arbonne you have to lead by example. The bottom line of this business is to sell products...hope this helps.

Leah, I�d love to check out your website. Email it to me when you can.

I really must say though I have never attacked anyone for failing or having a bad experience, have I? I�m very sorry when people fail. I know there are people who have had bad experiences. I hoped my first hand knowledge of the business and numerous success examples I could share would have been received the way they were intended; to help those like you with questions. But apparently many don�t see it that way and there are those who would rather use their failure/bad experience as a reason to invalidate everyone else�s success. A bad experience can be instructive and deserve to be heard, I agree, and there are examples here of how I tried to explain how those bad experiences may have happened and what one might learn from them. There are also examples of my agreeing with the writer that their bad experience should not have happened and the person causing it was wrong.

What is really unfortunate is when people claim to read what I write and then make conclusions about what I said, or about me, that aren�t in any way accurate or reflected in my words. And then because I make an attempt to clarify or inform it�s suggested that my �defense� is an indication I have something to hide! Those arguments, and others like it, are intellectually empty and demonstrate no logic at all.

You may very well understand it better when you reach the level of RVP and somebody tries to tell you that you got their by deceiving the uninformed, pushing overpriced products onto people who don�t really want them and that your financial gain is ill gotten by some �scheme�. Hopefully that won�t happen unless you hang around here!

I recently joined Arbonne with much excitement, unfortionately the friends and family that I share this with seem to be withdrawing themselves from me. Some people got really excited, but then when I called them again to continue the steps needed towards becoming a consultant, they wouldn't return my calls. I even have had some people get very dfensive and rude. I'm not being pushy. I knew that this wasn't going to be easy, that I'm fine with, but I don't want to become unlikable because of this. Does anyone have any advice for me on how I could possibly make this work. I really want to be successfull and am willing to put the time and effort in.

Hi Christy,

What you describe is not necessarily unusual. Unfortunately, handling it correctly is also unusual, so let me see if my advice helps. I�m only offering this as a suggestion so feel free to take it for what it�s worth.

Many times what happens when a new consultant is very excited and enthusiastic is their excitement causes those around them to get excited too. In a sense people around you want to feel the same thrill you�re feeling and so before they really have all the information and have time to process what might be required, or even if they have the need or desire, they say something to you that sounds like a commitment, or they fear you�ll think it was a commitment. Now after the excitement wears down and they start to consider the details, or their LACK of details, they realize they aren�t willing to make that commitment and they don�t know how to get out of it without embarrassment, fear that they�ll disappoint you or, depending on your personality, fear that you�ll be angry with them.

What�s important for you to do is reassure them by your actions that you�re not holding them to any commitment. Your next contact with those people should probably not be about the business. You need to establish in their minds that you have no expectations and that your interest is about THEM and not what they could do for you. Ask them about their vacation, their new car, their recent illness, whatever, but focus on your interest in their lives and not YOUR life. Once you�ve established that you not counting on them, you could at some point ask if they would like to hear about how your business is going and try some products. The idea in your conversations should not be a sales presentation, but a genuine inquiry into their needs to see if the products or the business is a fit for them. If you keep the focus on what their needs, desires or problems are you�ll soon discover whether you have a solution. If you think you do have a solution then that�s the time to ask them if they�d like to hear about what you do. If they agree with you that Arbonne offers a solution they will gladly be a customer and/or a partner in the business. Basically it comes down to what is true in all sales. People love to buy; they don�t like to be sold.

I hope that helps some.

Thanks Dave for your advice. I think you are absolutely right. I have been toning it down. I'm going to try to work more on the puppy approach, and foccus more on the product rather than the business opportunity. I have realized that it might just take me longer to grow. I'm hoping that if I just work on getting people interested in the product that everything else will fall into place. I do have an advantage of being an esthetician, so I know a lot about skin care, but I have a disadvantage of not knowing too many people in the area that I recently moved to. I also think I have tapped through my warm market. Do you think I have much of a chance with arbonne?

Hey Christy...
Interesting that Carol would post her story right after you because she demonstrates perfectly how the business works best. Introduce people to the product and those who have great results (which are most btw) will inquire about the business if they have a need and desire. Carol is a classic example of how many of the most successful consultants came to this business. She loves the product, has excellent credentials and has a need for the business. Carol�you�re �why� is what will propel you to great success. You sound like a perfect fit for the business. I wish you the best of success.

You have an excellent chance at success, Christy, if you�re determined to be successful I know a certain ENVP who moved to a new state 4 years ago and knew not a soul. She knew about Arbonne from the state she moved from, but had not done the business until she moved. Her total successline volume now is over 1.5 million per month. You�d faint if I told you how much her checks are. Anyway, approach the business from a desire to serve and help others and they will respond to you more positively than you�d think possible.

Hi, I read almost the entire page of posts. Unfortunately, I had to skip most of Dave's long-winded responses after a while. I find it interesting that when anyone is not gung-ho in favor of Arbonne, or even questions marketing strategies/actual location/etc., Dave is right in there with a lengthy (yawn) and militant rebuttal, often with some nasty-sounding accusation and belittling remarks thrown in, or suggestions for therapeutic intervention. Dave, stop. Let everyone else discuss this topic. We all know your feelings at this point and we can think for ourselves -- without therapeutic intervention! I know nothing about Arbonne but after reading the hostility present in some of the posts in this forum, I can honestly say I'll steer clear of this company. I guess I won't be blessed. Darn! Besides, thanks to some people here, I have found links to products boasting the same benefits without the almost brainwashed-sounding rhetoric from their reps. Thanks Dave!

Wow is an understatement!! I just sat and read this whole blog in one night. I, like many, searched for reviews on Arbonne. And like some found the site addictive, funny, scary, and overboard (sorry Dave, but you earned it whole heartedly).

Had I stopped reading in the middle I would have walked away with a definite "no, I'm not interested." But thanks to the ladies toward the end sharing so many helpful testimonies I am still considering it.

With regard to the deceit in advertising (location, Swiss blah, blah, blah, and the incorrect images) that cannot be taken lightly by anyone in business or experienced with marketing. Rarely can such misconceptions be truly the fault of someone lowly on the totem pole at a corporation. But, mistakes happen, even if dozens of industry professionals and scholars proof the material.

Rachel, I would like to discuss Arbonne with you.

Hey guys, I talked to my sponsor last night. She wants to plan my launch for September! I'm excited, and afraid but I'm going to give this thing my all. I'm not leaving my day job, so I don't have to worry about having to make it big quick. I'm working on my list of 100 people this weekend, and I'm thinking about the people who would really support me and be interested in this opportunity.

It is tough, trying to think of a friend who won't think you are crazy for getting involved in an MLM, but we all have at least one or two who would "get it."

Gabby, keep researching. Don't get involved in anything that you aren't comfortable with, because you won't approach it with the right attitude, and I don't mean that as an attack. Find out as much as you can first. A lack of details and info is what makes most initially excited people fail quickly.

With regard to the fake lab: when you call your credit card company for service, you are not calling your credit card company. You are calling a giant building in India with thousands of people working for hundreds of companies. Your credit card company doesn't tell you that, but I worked for the company who owns the building in India, so I know it's true. A lot of big companies use outsourcing to cut costs. Was the stuff created in a lab by a team of scientists who were contracted by a company named AIRD? Yes, who cares who owned the building?

With the marketing and the flower: Aesthetics will win over true facts sometimes. The flower they used probably fit the color scheme they were going for. They wanted to get the idea across that they are using botanical ingredients, and the average joe is going to see a pretty flower and move on. Make up your own mind on the ethics of that, but most people won't find an inaccuracy of that type to be very important. Sell me a car that doesn't look as advertised, and I'm going to be mad, but use the wrong flower in a picture, and I'll get over it.

Sorry for rambling, I promise not to do it again!

Thank you for that description, Rachel. It�s exactly true and, though some choose to ignore what I�ve said, I did say almost the exact thing earlier when I wrote that the business is not complicated but can be very hard.

I�m going to comment on the last post by �Amy� because of the example it illustrates to show why there�s such contention between me and some others who have posted. Then I�m going to get ready for a golf tournament and my trip to Hawaii, so I�ll shut up for a while. I hope this is instructive for others even while I know some of you will �yawn�.

It occurred to me that the difficulty of communicating with some on here is basically a problem with �right brain, left brain� differences, or some might say, Mars vs. Venus. In most cases I have attempted to respond by dealing with the logic or the correctness of the argument or information that some have posted. I agree I have been harsh at times because, frankly, I am not trying to appeal to emotions or feelings, but to the motives, judgment and sense of one�s argument as well as the accuracy of the writer.

Those like �Amy�, �Reader� and �Confidence & Diversion� have responded to me, not by challenging my logic or my facts, but by taking up an offense against me for the way I made them feel, or how they suspect my comments made someone else �feel�. I don�t want this to be very long, but let me use Amy to show what I mean. (And I�m NOT attacking her.)

Amy makes three things clear. 1. She skipped most of what I said because she thought it was too hostile, 2. She knows nothing about Arbonne and has had no prior exposure to it and 3. She has no interest in Arbonne now because of my hostility. Yet in spite of those facts and reactions, she still felt compelled by her emotions to write over 200 words just to complain about me. I would guess by doing so she FELT better.

On the other hand I react to these kinds of posts from a logical or intellectual perspective and dispute the accuracy of her conclusions as well as the sense of what she says. For example, does it really make sense to judge the potential opportunity Arbonne represents because she doesn�t like ME or what I�ve said or how I said it? (Especially since she claims she skipped most of it) Of course not. If it�s true what she says, that others can think for themselves, then does it make sense for her, thinking on her own I assume, to make a decision about her future based on ME? No�it�s an emotional response.

In business you should appeal to people�s emotions to attract them to your product or service, but you gain their loyalty or commitment to your product or service based on their real life experience, i.e. the logic of the decision. For the most part men understand the value of making decisions and analyzing information to make the best logical decision while many women are often swayed by their feelings which is not always reliable.

Should I feel I have something to offer when legitimate questions are asked, I will continue to respond. In the last week I�ve received at least a dozen direct emails requesting my assistance or comments from someone who read my posts, and I will continue to assist those who ask. On the other hand I�ll take into account the emotional side and try to be more sensitive to the �Amys� of the world so as not to hurt their feelings.

Oh brother. Where's Mike when I need him? You forgot to add "God Bless."

Wow - here it is 3:30pm on 8/19/05 and i finally finished reading all of the post. I am an Arbonne Consultant, joined 05/05/ - Love the products, the opportunity seems incredible. I truly enjoyed reading everyone's post. Great points were made. My direct sponsor is an NVP, Valerie Edwards, she made it in 18 months. She teaches us just to do the presentations (and if you can afford to do the Results Approach, then do it). But at least with Parties/presentations you can get a greater number of people in a room at one time. I also use my own products to demonstrate. Demonstrate the RE-9, Thermal Fusion Masque, Salt Scrub (which is always a big hit) and the hand Lotion. In my house we are all the vitamins (and by doing the autoship - you get your health and nutrition products 50% off. You can't beat it. There is nothing bad with getting people to buy products from themselves. I don't understand why all of the negative people want to condemn someone for trying to make a better life for their families. All it is - is an opportunity. And it can be a fun one. To me, hanging with a bunch of people talking about health and skin care - is alot more fun than sitting in an office or a cubicle all day long. So while I am here I am going to throw out my info- I am in Houston, Texas. It's slowly getting around here. Houston is mostly, Mary Kay, Avon and Beauticontrol. We hold meetings once a wk (they are free). If anyone wants information please contact me at aswails@houston.rr.com

Is doing your taxes a nightmare? I've always filed single, E-Z, standard deduction, whatever. I know everything becomes a writeoff. Is it a tough transition when joining near the end of the year? Is it time to just get an accountant?

This was an interesting read for me. Seeing the positives and negatives and I am still glad that I decided to build a business with Arbonne. I started in March of this year. For me Arbonne was the light at the end of the tunnel(I was so excited I couldn't sleep for 2 months). I thought about quitting at times since then, but Christy is right if it was easy everyone would be in. I believe that if you have the right mindset with the right company you can go all the way to the top of any MLM, its up to each individual to decide. For me the short term sacrifice will be worth it, as I like the idea of being the one to decide whether my pay will increase not some boss. I believe if you are honest and have good ethics, success will come. I live in a small town in Kansas and got to DM my first month, EDM my second month and when things got tough my girl gave it up but I'm not going to let that stop me because I've made new friends along the way, Arbonne has great leadership, a great compensation plan and an awsome product.

Main Entry: ar�ro�gance
Pronunciation: 'ar-&-g&n(t)s
Function: noun
: a feeling or an impression of superiority manifested in an overbearing manner or presumptuous claims

For the most part men understand the value of making decisions and analyzing information to make the best logical decision while many women are often swayed by their feelings which is not always reliable.
_________________________________________________

I take exception to Dave's unfortunate stereotyping of women's thinking skills, which he criticizes as being unreliable. Women have been very successful at building Arbonne into a multi-million dollar company over the past 25 years.
I think that Arbonne President Rita Davenport, Arbonne Vice President of Customer Service Kathy Huffman, and Arbonne Vice President of Operations Carol Hukari would take exception to Dave's criticism and stereotyping of women.

Jodi, I'm so glad to hear that you are doing so well with Arbonne. I'm finding it to be hard to get going, but it is also fun. I know I'm going to be successful in this because I'm not going to give up. It might take me longer than others but I don't care. I'm just going to chip away at this untill I make it. My advice to anyone is to not get all wrapped up in the money right away, take it one step at a time. People who think that they are going to get rich quick end up getting frustrated and give up because they see that this requires real work. I'm working hard at my current full time job as an esthetician as if I was not planning on quitting ever, and in my spare time I'm giving my all to Arbonne. This way when I do get disapointments I don't get depressed about it, because I have a life outside of this that I am successful with. The time will come where I will be able to quit my esthetic job and only do Arbonne, but I'm not going to dwell on that because its' going to be a bumpy road.

I have to admit, this is a really interesting blog!

Although I must say, Dave you have way too much free time on your hands; you need a job, ever think of selling Arbonne?

I have a question for the people that are ACTIVELY selling arbonne. I would really like to see some figures if this is at all possible (estimates are fine):

a) How long have you been with arbonne?
b) What is your current status level (C, DM, etc)
c) How much time and money have you invested in your consultant/business?
d) What forms of advertising do you use when your warm leads are all gone?
e) And the big question -- how much return on your investment have you received (aka - income)
f) Do you use the puppy dog/REsults approach?
g) Did you frontload (Buy products to sell retail)?
h) What do you think your chance of success is?

Any info you can provide would be greatly appreciated!

I signed up as an Arbonne consultant 3 months ago despite reading this blog first. Luckily, I saw through the negative comments. I've been doing really well and am on my way to making an income large enough for me to quit my day job. I have no prior experience in MLMs, sales, cosmetics...etc. I just educated myself with an open mind.

I deal with friends and family that sound like many of the posts here - that I'm selling snake oil or have joined a cult. But the truth is I'm working hard to better myself and to grow a business for my family's financial freedom. Meanwhile, they're just armchair critics too afraid to leave the comforts of the only thing they know - the falicy that a "stable" 9 to 5 job is all we need.

If you are considering joining Arbonne ask yourself one question: "Why should I take business advice from a bunch of people posting to an internet site that I don't know the first thing about?". I remember reading about people sinking $$$ into stock tips from people posting their "wisdom" on sites. Please, if you can see the opportunity for what it is - and not get swayed by other peoples opinions - than you can make it in this business. Dealing with these dream stealers will be your biggest obsticle to success. If you can do it, you can succeed.

Arbonne's products are fun to sell. I love them. People love them. I sell so much more than I personally ever thought I could. The response people have when you introduce them to the Arbonne products will really prove my point. Many of the testimonials are life changing stories. I believe in selling Arbonne so much, and the response I get from dealing face-to-face just keeps me more and more motivated.

Enjoy!
Karen

Janice,
I believe you are using a travel set. Does the set you have come in a cute little orange, brown, and gold shiny bag? If so that is the travel set. If it is a row of packets attached together that is a sample packet.

I use the full size RE9 as my demo-kit. As far as hygiene...I sterilize each set with Isopropyl alcohol between clients. I wipe down all of the outsides of the bottles and the inside/outside of the lids with alcohol and cotton balls. I remove the cap and place it in a bowl of alcohol, letting it soak for a few seconds. I replace the cap. I pump the product twice. I don't use the full size RE9 night creme in my demo-kit. I tear off the RE9 night creme packet from the sample. I put it all the sterilized bottles back into a gold bag that I have wiped down with alcohol. I include instructions and my card...at the drop off I schedule the pick up. When I pick up the demo-kit I give them the remainder of the samples until their order comes in.

When someone is launched on my team and they don't have their products yet...I use mine. The same goes with my demo-kits. I let them use 2 of my demo-kits. BUT only for their first few drop offs. Then with their profits and host specials...they purchase their own complete RE9 sets. The travel set you mentioned is a special. You can purchase it for $45 when the retail order totals $250. I have known of people to buy the travel set with their RE9 set order then they get the full RE9 set working as a demo-kit and use the travel set personally. Hope this helps.

Patty, the word of my upline should be enough to tell me what policy is. I shouldn't have to refer to the fine print. My upline was mistaken, pure and simple. There was nothing malicious about it.

The fact is that Arbonne's internet policy for consultants is blatantly unfair and biased towards those who got in before a certain time. They claim to level the playing field for consultants, but they are actually excluding most of the them and providing an unfair advatange to a dozen or so consultants that ARE allowed to market online.

You don't need to read the fine print to understand that.

I have to completely agree with Joel. They are loosing out on a market sector if you ask me. There are people that prefer NOT do do face-to-face business (I being one of them - if I can order online and avoid a sales pitch, I will).

I've also noticed that their agreement states that their consultants cannot use the "Arbonne" name in PPC advertising, but if you go to Yahoo, Google and type in "Arbonne", you see a bunch of women fighting over the key words. So is this another exception to their rules?

Joel& all,

Most of the Arbonne approved websites that you refer to are great, and I am thankful they exist. They are not competition (at least the legitemate ones are not.) As a consultant, I refer to them often and send my consultants to them too. Why? Because they greatly help me improve my business.

These site can recruit, educate and promote the Arbonne business, but they can not sell products directly on their site. The also can not link to the store. They also have to abide by the rules against paying for search words, advertising on other sites, using Arbonne's name in other websites...etc.

Most of these sites are owned by NVP's and they are used primarily to communicate with their team and provide people like me with a ton of great but "unofficial" training material, copies of presentations that I can review, and lots of tips on how to sponsor...etc. There are clear guidelines with Arbonne on what these sites can and cannot do. Arbonne did allow some older sites to remain, and I'm glad they exist.

But there are many Arbonne consultants who abuse the policies. They create their own websites and online stores, post online ads, buy search words, and sell on auction sites. I was thrilled to read that Arbonne cracked down on you, as it gives me hope they will do the same with the hundreds of other consultants who either don't educate themselves (and this is their business therefor their responsiblity, not their uplines), or who intentionally break the rules.

Arbonne may be missing a great opportunity, but if you familiarize yourself with the term "channel conflict" you may begin to see why companies have to focus on using compatible distribution models. If people could buy Arbonne online easily, the perception to a direct seller would be its stiff competition and therefor Arbonne has less business opportunity. And if people don't see a business opportunity with Arbonne, people will go elsewhere. And if people go elsewhere.... well, you can figure it out from here.

Lastly, skin care products sell best using the direct method, not online. Skin care products require a bit more education and consultation than an average product. (The people buying Arbonne online already are educated by a direct seller like me!) Vaccumes, books, CDs, spy cams...etc. do not require personalized consultations and are perfect products for selling online. So, I don't believe Arbonne is missing much opportunity. The direct selling model is best for this product type, and they are ensuring consultants like me have plenty of opportunity.

All the best,
Karen

p.s. what's ppc advertising?

Karen and Curious Cat... I have replies for both of you!

Karen, check out these sites.

http://www.sandratillinghast.com
http://www.picturemebeautiful.com
http://www.ascendingwings.com
http://thewiserway.com
http://www.askthea.com/

Most of them blatantly sell the products or link to the sales pages. Sorry, but this is just unfair.

Curious Cat, the people bidding on the Arbonne keyword are not selling Arbonne. If you wanted to sell Avon or Mary Kay, you would bid on Arbonne because you know people are looking for skin care products. Only Arbonne consultants are not allowed to leverage smart Internet marketing.

That's the facts :-)

Joel

Curious Cat,

Anything called myarbonne is an Arbonne registered site. Joel mentioned in his very first post that Arbonne charges a $39 fee to submit your myarbonne site to a list of search engines. No policing necessary; those sites are legit, as is the fact that they are on a search.

Whew! Dave, when I read these postings all I see in your responses are; "golf, blah, blah,blah, SUV, blah blah blah, $$$$$$$, blah blah blah. You are not helping your case or Arbonne's at all. If you are truly a happy, content-to-not-be-working person, why are you wasting your time here? Your thumbs must be in agony, it would take me all day to respond with my cell phone/blackberry. (Seeing how you spend all of your time at the golf course.) BTW, Watch out for that oncoming golf cart!!

I have been sitting at my computer for over 2 hours reading these blogs from the beginning. Unfortunately, I stopped on Aug 5th and will return later to read the rest. I have just started my Arbonne business and have been enlightened by everyones comments. Dave, you are a wealth of knowledge and I can't believe how much time you have spent defending Arbonne (the products sell themselves). The rest of you may bring up good points, but overall, nobody achieves their dreams by not giving 100% and with negative thoughts. I can't wait to begin this journey and I will look forward to meeting Dave in the future. Best of luck to the rest of you and I hope you will begin to see the glass half full instead of the glass half empty.

Pam

I have been looking into Arbonne because my best friend is in hook, line and sinker. She even skipped her mortgage payment to get started and buy her pups, etc, etc. I have a good job (I work from home) but Arbonne preaches financial freedon versus self employment, and who doesn't want to be financially free? I work hard at my job, often seven days a week. My friend is a very level headed woman, but I am concerned about the fact that she is willing to bankrupt herself for Arbonne. I finally attended her party and told her that I would be researching Arbonne this weekend. (sorry, Dave, I'm sure you will be attacking me next, but you really blew it as far as supporting Arbonne as far as I am concerned, with your droning on and on and your belittling of people and their opinions) My friend calls me up just this afternoon (while I am researching at her request) and tells me, maybe you don't have enough time to put into this. I think what she really means is money. I am NOT going to skip my mortgage payment for anyone. Any comments? I am still considering Arbonne, actually am signed up as a consultant, just not a "business builder". Now Dave, please be gentle. I am not an evil person.

This is in response to a reader. I am sure nobody in Arbonne would suggest that you skip your house payment to start this business. Actually, my upline suggested using a credit card so you wouldn't be using any money out of pocket right away and you can pay it back as you earn money. I think your friend is just concerned that you may not be thinking as positively as she is. She is right than being negative is contagious but she needs to be realistic and know that she may not make enough money to make her house payment. As David has mentioned this is not a get rich quick business so you are right to be concerned. Just don't let that be a reason to not become part of her team. She sounds like the type who wants to run in and not look and you want to walk and take everything in. Best of luck to you both.

CC: I agree that Arbonne's products ARE good. My beef is not with the products. It is with the consultant's terms for conducting business online and the unfair advantage they give to some consultants over others.

A Reader: Please don't judge Arbonne based on Dave or me or any of the negative posters. Research it for yourself and then determine if you are the type of person to work this type of program. People have risked bankruptcy for many enterprises they believe in. It's part of being an entreprenuer, so there is nothing wrong with that. You just have to make sure it is right for you!

Joel

P.S. - I still can't believe how many replies this blog entry has received. Perhaps I should start a real arbonne message board system?

Joel, what an absolutely wonderful idea!! Start a "real" Arbonne blog. I have been reading this one for several weeks now, and I am impressed by the level of knowledge that has been advanced here about Arbonne. I'm also impressed by the level of disinformation that some people put forward to establish (read: promote) their own brand of "information."

Here's my story and I'm sticking to it. Arbonne is a wonderful product. I have been blessed with great skin (thank you, ancestors), but about three years ago as I approached my 60th birthday, I noticed that my skin had started looking a little tired. Since I am a big believer in the use of the internet, I went looking for products that would help my skin. I have tried many of the products promoted on the internet as anti-aging. None seemed to live up to its promise. I also tried many of the products at Walgreen's and other drug stores. They, too, didn't give me results that could be termed "great". My sister suggested I try some products at msnbc.com. They were tremendously expensive (Arbonne is much cheaper), and after using them for several months, I didn't see much of a change.

Then I happened to see the website of Kathy Whittington (www.ascendingwings.com) aka one of the "grandfathered in" sites that Arbonne allows. I had never heard of Arbonne products. None of my friends had shared this great secret with me if they knew it.

I signed up as a consultant on Kathy's website and ordered products to try, at 35% discount. All I can say about my skin is "WOW", which is what my husband says, and what most of my friends I have seen in the last four months have said. Seeing is believing!! My only complaint is that my bathroom is yellow and blue, and the orange anti-aging product bottles don't fit in very well with the color scheme. Ha-ha.

The products are wonderful -- and they do what Arbonne says they will do. I really didn't join Arbonne to "sell" products. But, it is almost impossible not to sell products when your skin has made such a dramatic improvement in a few months. My friends just have to try the products. I sign them up as consultants to get the discount, and here I am with an Arbonne business. My best friend of 50 years has become an Arbonne consultant with me (not our first business endeavor together), and we are ready to make this business part of our plans for retirement. She is using the products and her skin is looking wonderful.

Who cares if there is a "laboratory" in Switzerland? Who cares if the business was started in Switzerland or on the moon? The fact is the products work. And they work without harsh chemicals, animal testing, and other things that most of us care about.

My friend and I are using the "REsults" approach and it is fun and fantastic to be able to help our friends regain the skin they had months, or years ago.

To those who are struggling to make a decision on this business, I would say: Try the products, use them as instructed for a number of weeks or months, and then make a decision about this business. You may be surprised at the reaction you get from friends, family, and even casual acquaintances.

If you are a "Red Hat" lady, contact me and let's talk!!

My sponsor, Kathy Whittington, just promoted to Executive National Vice President on July 1. Congratulations to her and her tremendous organization. While I don't have such grand expectations, with Arbonne, who knows????

Best of luck, Joel. I'm sorry the internet promotion thing didn't work out. I got dinged too for not reading the rules closely enough. But now I have a website where my friends and clients can get information and can buy or sign up as they choose.

If anyone wants information on my business model, please contact me via e-mail.

Best wishes to new consultants, and those struggling to become consultants.

Well, my decision has been made. My friend came to my house last night because I had some questions for her and was not accepting everything she was saying as the gospel truth. My husband and I both felt that we were trying to be "converted", for lack of a better term. We all mutually decided that Arbonne was not for me. Then I receive a phone call from this same friend about an hour after she left, wanting me to meet with someone higher up. I said I couldn't because I had to work. Now I AM A LOSER, my faith has been attacked, and I have been accused of jeopardizing my friendship with her. Needless to say, Arbonne is not for me, and unfortunately I have also lost a friend. Please do not get me wrong, I wish everyone well who decides to pursue the Arbonne path. I just feel that if you step on people and hurt them in order to attain your goal, I don't want any part of it.

Dave,

I am a new Arbonne consultant and read your post concerning Michael Oliver's book. Have you or anyone on your team tried his "Power Up Your Dialogue" series? It is a good bit more expensive than the book and I want to know if I would be getting really helpful information before I spend that much.

Thanks,

Michelle

Tracy,

I am still an Arbonne consultant as there are a trickle of orders that come in, covering the costs of the site.

Your story is a perfect example of the unfair advantage that the "grandfathered" sites have.

Ascending Wings and the others don't have to do anything to get new consultants signed up. Yet, Arbonne claimed it would be unfair for me to use a web site to generate leads.

I may launch those forums after all. Of course, I couldn't use the site to promote my Arbonne business. But it could be a valuable resource for people.

Joel

I�ve got only a few minutes but I want to say to �a reader� that I too am sorry for your bad experience with regard to your friend. I agree with Joel�s comments about some people not being mature or skilled enough, or experienced enough, to handle properly the process of introducing the products and business. Remember, most people getting into this business have no prior experience in regard to sales, or even business in general and they allow their zeal to become overbearing. I�d tell your friend you were put off by her presentation and that she needs to get some training or she�ll get no where in her business.

This is why I am now highly recommending Michael Oliver�s book �How to Sell Network Marketing� The more I read it, re-read it and study it, the more I have come to believe it is a MUST read for anyone in this business. So please�read it! It�s on Amazon for just $13.50.

To answer you Michelle, no I have not tried his �Power Up Your Dialogue� series. But I imagine after reading the book it would be a great additional training. I�m sure it would be worth the investment, but only you can decide if it�s the right thing to do.

Aloha everyone!

Reader,

Your story amazes me, and I am so sorry that you didn't get a more positive experience when learning of the Arbonne business opportunity. There is a lot of training available for your friend (and all Arbonne consultants) on how to PROPERLY approach people about the business, but it seams like she has not yet taken the time to learn the do's and don'ts of sponsoring. Under no circumstances should friendships be lost. Arbonne should not be so high on her priority list. I am sorry you went through this!

You also mentioned not having enough time to do Arbonne. That is the #1 reason people give for not making time to do Arbonne, and it is a true concern for most of us. But let me ask you this - if you KNEW that in 2 to 3 years you could be earning $10K or more a month working part-time, would you be more willing to find the time to learn this business? I'm not guaranteeing success with Arbonne, but I am guaranteeing failure when someone doesn't try. Many (many, many, many)people are making $10K+ per month after only a few years. All of them put in a lot of hard work to get there, and they all allowed themselves to take risks even when they were not comfortable. They were coachable, motivated and focused on the bigger picture. They didn't let people (or blogs!) get them down and stand in their way. I think your friend didn't paint the bigger picture well for you. But if you think you could paint that picture for others, you will be successful with Arbonne. I wish I could talk to you to tell you more. All the best!

Karen (EDM with Arbonne)

Can someone please tell me, without spewing venom and getting completely defensive, why there is so much talk about Christianity and Jesus in relation to Arbonne?

I was told from the very beginning, as a selling point, that Arbonne is a Christian based company. Just what I was told...

joel,

how do you set up a blog like this...I have some server space to use.

what's hte security code for...do?

Rich asked, "How do I buy the products at 65% off?
"is 65% of Retail Volume." on:
http://www.arbonne.com/sub/company/success_plan_ben.html
It's confusing with all the bonus/freebies."

That whole line is "Override Volume, on which overrides are calculated, is 65% OF [not "off"] Retail Volume." You can't purchase the products at 65% off. 65% OF Retail Volume is what we receive our overrides on.

As far as Arbonne being a "christian" company...a consultant may have said that in reference to her upline. It's not affiliated with any particular religion, though in these kinds of companies (more so party plans and direct selling than MLM), you tend to get a greater number of Christian women involved b/c they have the greater tendency to be less "career" oriented and more oriented toward finding something that will keep them home with their children. Please, no one jump on me for saying that...I realize it's a generalization, but hey, it's true!

TS: Sorry if my comment was misconstrued. I truly am not passing judgement on anyone!! I have been told many times that I wear my emotions on my sleeve, and I think that was more what I was trying to convey, in that I do not think that I am personally strong enough, rather than I think I'm better than anyone else!!

Mary

Just wanted to let you know that on the Arbonne web site under consultants, it explained about the delay and told everyone that orders are being caught up this week. It also stated that you would have an additional month to reach the next qualifying level (just as if August was never on the calendar).

I guess I look at this as a Christian type of work because I truly want the people in my downline to be as successful as myself or more so if they are really motivated. If I can help someone else achieve their goals then awesome. Yes, we receive compensation for their efforts but someone below us can kick our butts. Say I put 2 people under me and one starts at a run and gets 4 wide and six deep but i can't get another person directly under me, the person on the run will make way more money than me. I think I am accurate on that so somebody correct me if I am wrong. It may not happen much but it can.

Hi everyone.
Wow what a lot of comments about this subject. I have been concerned and somewhat frustrated about the Arbonne topic and this seems to be my outlet to get this all off of my chest.
I have studied nutrition and detoxing on my own for 10 years since I have had some health problems. That has led me to begin my BA degree in holistic nutrition AND continue into herbalism. I continue to learn so much and in the process my heart has been geared toward educating people and helping them educate THEMSEVLES making wise choices, thus improving health and life. I am apprecciative of Arbonne's attempt to provide a better product by leaving out certain chemicals and animal products. Also the botanicals and herbal base of their products is great! I am also aware that it helps people make money who really are in a bind and that it builds confidence in the consultants. BUT...my beef with Arbonne is that they seem to only give part truths. Has anyone truly read the labels of their products? I mean with an INDEPENDANT mind? There are still several chemicals allowed in them that are very toxic and gross to say the least. (I have heard some consultants say that some chemicals rinse off and aren't left on the skin, but I'm talking about the chemicals that are in the skin care and makeup that we leave on all day.) I have tried ARbonne twice for 12 months total and although I do like the effects of RE9 Transforming Lift, the other products just don't "do it" for me. They tend to burn my eyes even when not near my eyes and they form more wrinkles than get rid of them. Also the makeup makes me break out every time. Most all products do not do this to me. I know that I am probably not the norm, but my MAIN point is that I am concerned for the consultant AND the consumer from a health and educational aspect.
My other beef is the cost. People say the cost is high because the product comes from Swizterland. I know to us Americans that sounds real "impressive". And I also know that Switerland's FDA has stricter regulations on products compared to our FDA. But what is not told is that there are equally pure if not MORE pure products sold in health food stores that are 1/4 to 1/3 of the cost of Arbonne. Yes you will find more expensive brands also, but they are usually worth it and have less chemicals than Arbonne. These products DO get the job done and NO you don't have to put them in the refrigerator to keep them fresh.. (an Arbonne consultant once asked me that). I have done extended research on the chemicals that Arbonne has in their RE9 skin care products and their makeup and I can tell you that even though they ARE botanically based, I disagree on the term PURE. I have chosen not to make this letter a book by listing everything, but I will encourage you all to investigate for yourselves because that is what we all need to be doing. You will see that there are other chemicals in these products and some of them are at the beginning of the ingredient list! The one that really bothers me is Diazolidinyl Urea, or Urea which is a byproduct of Urine. I don't care what a chemical lab does to urine to make it safe. I DON'T want it on my face!! Many well meaning people looking for opportunity are hearing ARbonne's claims. Many take it at face value and then repeat the information usually word for word making them sound like little robots. I understand why people might see Arbonne as a cult ( I don't really think that way) because the company (in my opinion) gets in the way of individual seeking and thinking. This is my concern. Arbonne has this air about them that they are the only pure company (this is what their consultants portray) and this is what gives them a creepy "cultish" feel.
All that to say GET EDUCATED!

Diazolidinyl urea -Established as a primary cause of contact dermatitis (American Academy of Dermatology)
Contains formaldehyde, a carcinogenic chemical, is toxic by inhalation, a strong irritant, and causes contact dermatitis.

Urea or Carbamide:
(britannica.com) the chief nitrogenous end product of protein breakdown in mammals and some fish. It occurs not only in urine but also in blood, bile, milk and perspiration. It is one of the INDUSTRIAL CHEMICALS produced in vast amounts.

"Why It�s Included
This ingredient is used as a preservative in a variety of Arbonne�s
products. Preservatives are essential in maintaining the integrity of
cosmetic formulations as they help inhibit the growth of yeast, mold
and bacteria. Arbonne follows all CIR (Cosmetic Ingredient Review
Board) recommended usage and concentration guidelines.
The Facts
Reports have suggested that Diazolidinyl Urea is a formaldehyde
releaser but there is no indication that the use of Diazolidinyl Urea
as used in cosmetic products would release formaldehyde at
concentrations that would exceed the limits recommended for
formaldehyde. On the basis of clinical data, the CIR expert panel
concluded that Diazolidinyl Urea is safe as a cosmetic ingredient up to
a maximum concentration of 0.5%. In fact, RIPT (Repeat Insult Patch
Tests) sensitization studies using cosmetic products at concentrations
up to 0.4% on normal subjects were essentially negative."

I read around, and it's controversial...meaning, the jury's out on it. It's not hard-and-fast, a horrible ingredient. I found several other "natural" lines who use it as well.

anoyed, has it ever occured to you that most businesses replicate a pyramid. Corporate america for ex. ceo, presedent, vice presedent, middle management ect...Arbonne is one of the few companies where you can join in after somone, and surpass them many levels based on the work that you put forth. Not to mention there are no poletics in this business. It is quite simple, you work hard you make more money, you don't work hard no money. You can think what you want because those kinds of comments are made by people who don't have what it takes to do this business anyway. Instead of judging the people who work with Arbonne maybe you should do a little research and get your facts straight.

Christy, i'm not judging anyone per se. but you are exactly right, Arbonne is just like any other company. The fact is, you put more work into anything, you get more out of it. that's a life lesson though, NOT an arbonne lesson. im just sick and tired of everyone acting like arbonne dropped out of the heavens to save everyone's apparently-wretched lives. i wish that the arbonnites would quit trying to shove their so-called "hard work" down everyone's throat because their "hard work" is usually pushing someone to sign up so they can have more people under them. dont try to deny it... its just the truth. im not slamming anyone for their success. Go team go. but im sick of the presentation of arbonne being portrayed as the second coming or something.

db - My point was that perhaps DU is an ingredient that has no "purer" alternative. I am interested to know the other chemicals that you speak of.

Annoyed - We defend Arbonne b/c it is worthy of defense. It is NOT a pyramid, for as I believe you meant to say, they are ILlegal, and therefore we could not exist if we were a pyramid.

Apparently people have a misconception of the pyramid definition. A "pyramid scheme" is one in which people pay a large cost - say $500 or $1,000 - which does not give them any products in return...it's just a "licensing fee" or "joiners fee" or something like that to become part of the company. These eventually fall apart b/c there's no one else to sell to after the start fees are used up.

Arbonne, however - much like Mary Kay, Avon, The Body Shop at Home and the like - has a product that is consumable and therefore needs to be reordered on a regular basis, keeping the consultants in business. I've never heard of anyone referring to Mary Kay as a pyramid, so it shocks me when someone says Arbonne is.

Besides, if you were employed somewhere and absolutely LOVED your job, wouldn't you defend it if people were wrongly accusing your company of being unethical?

TS
I appecciate your professional and calm replies to these controversial matters.
I would encourage you to look at the list of ingredients on your Arbonne product and do some research for yourself. My point remains that people need to get facts even if it requires a lot of digging. You can't trust everyone and what they say. I don't even expect you to trust me. Just get your own facts. I will conclude this by saying if bat poop or a derivative of it is not okay to put in cosmetics, then a derivative from urine isn't either in my book. I do not believe that this amazing scientific world with the help of God's wisdom can not come up w/ a purer alternative. whatever that's worth.
db

What's with all the ingredients checking? We all consume all kinds of stuff that would make us vomit if we really knew about it. Does Arbonne put chemicals in its products? Yes, they don't lie about that. Whether the Urea is synthesized or not, guess what else has urine, and human feces, all over it that you probably touch before touching your face, or even your mouth? Money! And we all handle that several times a day.

No one researches each ingredient of each product s/he uses on a daily basis. If you have particular needs, do your research. If you find a product that works for you, then use it.(stepping off soapbox)

Rachel, I know you spoke about not making more of an investment than you can afford. I've paid my $29 and bought my $96 now you're in business pack. Apparently I need to spend about $400 more just to have product to show. I'm already planning parties for after my sponsor stops helping me at the end of September. We're using her show stuff until then. It sounds like I need to get these things to do parties. I'm not even worried about the drop-off kits right now.

Do you, or anyone else here, have any advice about this? I'm waiting to hear if I'm approved for the Arbonne MBNA card, but my credit is not exactly spotless. I really really want to make my business work, but the affordability is a little scary right now. Has anyone else with less than perfect credit been approved for the card? Someone please help me!

TS,

Thank you for your help. So you're suggesting, which is what I was already thinking is a good idea, that I should wait until I see my sales from my launch, and use those profits for buying my first Essentials set? Will shipping be straightened out enough by then that I will have the products before October?

Now I just have to push the crap out of my launch, and get these gals to spend spend spend. :) Just kidding, I'm not going to hound anyone. I will just tell my sponsor that this is what I can afford to do, and we will just have to work with it. She's been very supportive; I think she's just worried about me being prepared.

db

Thanks for the list. I recognize a lot of these as being things I checked out, but I will check again. I'm just that kind of person...I have to investigate EVERYTHING! :-) I actually read some of Sam Epstein's info when I was researching and actually emailed him!

For what it's worth, I checked with Arbonne and the UREA we use is synthetic, not from urine.

Leah - good plan! I think the shipping thing will be figured out. One of my consultants ordered products two weeks ago and got them in the normal time frame.

:-)
t

TS

It is nice to know someone else who does so much researching! : )
I'm sure that I'm frustrating people who have been following our conversation, but I have to say that synthetic ingredients bother me also. I guess I'm pretty stinkin' picky! I'm just one of those "weird-o's" that refuse to follow the crowd. Can we just agree to disagree? : ) thank you for all of your comments.

Tina,
You are a great mediator! thank you also for your comments.

I've been reading these posts for the last two hours. I'm totally confused right now.
I became an Arbonne Consultant at the end of July. However, I didn't really start marketing till the end of August via business cards and letters. I still haven't received my Open for Business" package..., it is still back ordered. I'm having my business launch in two weeks.... and am hoping for a large turnout.
Not quite sure about this whoe thing...., never have been into MLM and this is all new to me..., however, I'm having some fun doing it if for nothing else than to see how far I can go with it.
I also love their products, so, if it fails, I lose nothing but gained things that I will use every day.
My question is.... Is it legal to market these products through another consultant in a beauty salon, spa, chiropractors office, etc...
Can anyone answer that question for me?
thank you..
Maria

Maria,
You may sell through such places as salons, doctors' offices and spas as long as they are "by appointment" businesses. You may not have stacks of inventory on the shelves, but can use that as a method to schedule individual appointments.

I hope this helps.

Kim

Is there anyone doing the results approach and classes at the same time? I just wondered. I do the results approach and have found success, I'm a district manager and half-way to area. I'm just having a hard time getting my asap points and I wondered if anyone still does classes with the results approach. I'd appreciate POSITIVE input.
Thanks

oops...my email address is bkatz68@comcast.net. the bmkatz is for my myarbonne website. looking forward to hearing from you....

beth

I was told from the very beginning, as a selling point, that Arbonne is a Christian based company. Just what I was told...

Posted by: A reader at August 29, 2005 11:11 PM

I was lead to believe that Arbonne was a Christian based organization. It is not. Is Arbonne not an MLM? MLM, pyramid schemes, network marketing and referral marketing are the same. There are a few great books that explain, "False Profits" by Robert Fitzpatrick, and on MLM Survivor.com recommends a great on called "Consumed by succes" by Athena Dean.

Posted by: Terri at September 8, 2005 12:01 PM

I certainly hope NOT! I will not join it if it is. Can anyone out there verify if it is?

Thanks
Marnie

Hi all. I wasn�t planning to participate in the latest discussions because some others have very competently responded. But I feel I should respond to �pilot� because he includes me specifically in his remarks.

First of all, I find no shame in being called a �dreamer�. I�m glad I�m a dreamer, if I am, because it�s dreams that motivate one to be more than they might be. Most people don�t dream, and therefore, don�t go after the things that will make them feel fulfilled and content. I actually wish I dared to dream bigger! I might accomplish even more. I�m sure pilot that you started your business because of a �dream� or desire or motivation to do and be and have more than you were otherwise able to. One of my dreams was to NOT have to work 16 hours a day anymore. We did that for 14 years and I can tell you it comes without any permanent reward. The time I have now I use to spend with my daughter and my wife and it is much more rewarding and a dream come true. I play golf when I can, which is certainly not always, but more than it used to be. The exercise, enjoyment of friends and satisfaction of learning to play better indeed has a lifelong reward. As it�s been said many times that NO one on their death bed wishes they spent more time at the office. Do you have children pilot? I can tell you they are not impressed by your 16 hour day, especially when it causes you to miss soccer games, dance recitals or other such activities. Just being able to pick up my daughter at the bus stop at the end of the school day is reward enough for doing this business.

Additionally, to assume that because you invested heavily in the establishment of your business that you are now immune to any threats to the viability of your business displays a naivet� that is frankly astounding. Huge investments and traditional business models do not protect you from changes in technology or powerful competition that can render your business obsolete almost overnight. Think of the hundreds of small businesses displaced by mega-store competition or new technology. The examples are endless and there are probably many in your neighborhood. Do you have a Staples, a Walmart, a Sports Authority, a Borders in your area? Then you certainly have displaced small traditional businesses over the last 2 decades.

Is Arbonne a guarantee? Of course not and nobody has said that. It�s not about guarantees. It�s about the potential. Arbonne offers POTENTIALLY a significant return on your investment. POTENTIALLY better than any other opportunity you may find for the amount needed to start. Can it or will it collapse? I doubt it, but it might. Who knows? There�s no evidence to suggest that it will anytime soon. Because Get Real or Pilot say it will is not evidence. Who would have thought five years ago that Arthur Andersen, one of the worlds largest, most influential and most profitable accounting firms in the world would disappear, virtually overnight? No one knows for sure what the future holds for any enterprise, even yours Pilot. I have confidence in the management, the products and the business model so I have no fears that would prevent me from enjoying the success Arbonne has helped us achieve so far and the dreams that have come true and are coming true. Not only for us, but countless others as well!

And just a quick comment to Marnie: The question of Arbonne being a �Christian company� has been answered here several times. In fact Joel, just a few posts back, offered an excellent suggestion as to why this misconception may be out there. Read back a while Marnie and you�ll find your answer.

Some food for thought (this helped me walk away from Arbonne - and all MLMs):

I've been told there are over 300,000 total consultants signed up with the company last month (wholesalers, business builders, etc.).

Knowing this, let's crunch some numbers.

Effective July 2005 (Arbonne demographics map) there were:
151 - NVPs - less than 1% of total
588 - RVPs - less than 1% of total
2441 - AMs - 1% of total
13,093 - DMs - 4% of total

Okay, I'm pretty cocky, but to realistically think I will be one of the less than 1%?!?

Now let's look at the numbers a different way -

Percentage of NVP, RVP, etc. from the total managers only (total of all managers is 16,273).
151 - NVPs - 1% of total mgrs
588 - RVPs - 4% of total mgrs
2441 - AMs - 15% of total mgrs
13,093 - DMs - 80% of total mgrs

Okay - maybe a little bit better odds - but what does this mean financially?

Average compensation check for each level (numbers from Arbonne corp):

NVP - $29,050.27 - 1% of biz blders make this
RVP - $6,666.43 - 4% of biz blders make this
AM - $1,557.26 - 15% of biz blders make this
DM - $304.13 - 80% of biz blders make this

I bought into this because of my ego saying I could be one of the special 4% or less.

Just something for people to think about if they are considering the business.

Am I not capable of dreaming? Oh, I dream big! I have another business that I neglected because I worked on the Arbonne so much. Luckily, I didn't do permanent harm and things are starting to get going pretty great! :) Why did I try Arbonne when I already had a business? Ego and greed are pretty powerful forces....

Hugs, Tina

Hi Tina.
I�m always hesitant to respond your kind of post because I�m never sure if you�re really looking for an answer to your comments or if you�re just �venting� and looking for support that what you say is valid. Even though I suspect the latter, I�ll respond just so the flip side of the coin gets some exposure, so to speak. I�ll try to keep it short, but answers to complicated questions often take bit of explaining.

A lot of times arguments like yours are really just a way to provide a logical reason to let yourself off the hook for a commitment you made or for a vision (dream) you�ve decided not to pursue any longer. If you decided not to do Arbonne that�s okay; don�t feel guilty about it or feel like you�re letting yourself or someone else down.

You are saying that because only 1% are NVPs and another 1% are RVPs that your chances of joining the 2% are slim. Is that correct? Let me look at it another way. Since an RVP or NVP usually has anywhere from 50 to 200 consultants, even more, signed up under them, either directly or through those on their team, it naturally makes sense that they would be represented by the 1% figure. The thing to keep in mind is that as the company grows and sales increase, the pie gets bigger, and the 1% number also grows. One percent of 2 million will be a lot of NVPs. You can join the 1% because there is more and more opportunity to place yourself at the top of YOUR 100 person organization.

Secondly, the 1% did not get there by luck. So for you to get there does also not require luck. They get there because of their productivity. If you develop the amount of business needed to achieve that level, you will join the 1%, or whatever percentage it is. Not everyone will make it. No dispute there. But the reasons are not because of chance or lack of opportunity.

Only 1% of Americans earn $100K a year or more. But would you say because of that low percentage it�s impossible, or unlikely YOU could earn that much? Of course not, because the reasons have to do with things like education, skills& abilities, work ethic, habits and the choice of activity (business or career or product) and not the environment (economic and/or social structure). You don�t earn that much as an elementary school teacher, so if that�s how much you want to earn you have to choose a different path. That may not be your goal, but with the right skill, effort and product you CAN earn that much or even more. Just don�t le