Glenn Beck’s “The Real America”
Definitely the best thing to come along in talk radio since Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck is rapidly becoming the “must-listen to” host of the decade. Limbaugh is still the King of talk radio (sorry Howard Stern), but Beck brings a freshness that has been missing. Politically, he manages to hit the nail on the head again and again, giving voice to what many of us already think and believe, but with an insightful approach that may differ from popular opinion. As an entertainer, he is often a riot to listen to. He and his writers come up with a variety of spoofs, fake callers, music and other parodies that successfully lampoon the sacred cows of today. Fortunately, the target is most often liberals and democrats.
Glenn has a new book coming out in late September. From listening to his show these past months, I am eager to get my hands on a copy of The Real America: Messages from the Heart and Heartland. I have a hunch that it will be required reading for all liberals.
WOW! PART 1. It looks like futuredoc and others have pulled out the anti-Mormon books and pamphlets and websites to try to EXPOSE those CRAZY Mormon beliefs. I know see that futuredoc as well as others posted here are simply lazy anti-Mormons. I say lazy because you rely on resources created by excommunicated members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day or relatives of prominent church authorities (ie. The Tanner’s). These sources are weak if not scandalous.
Sure some of your resources quote from the actual words or writings of prominent Mormon figures, even leaders of the church. However, they are usually out of context and/or misunderstood.
Just one example: futuredoc quotes from an anti-Mormon book or website that quotes Bruce R. McConkie’s book titled MORMON DOCTRINE: “Christ was begotten by an Immortal Father in the same way that mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers” (Mormon Doctrine,” by Bruce McConkie, p. 547) Elder McConkie was an apostle and noted scriptorian of the church who has since died. Futuredoc’s anti-Mormon resource believes this means Mormons believe Heavenly Father had sex with Mary and she is not a virgin. Futuredoc’s anti-Mormon resource was not interested in the truth and only wanted to taint and misrepresent Mormon beliefs. If this anti-Mormon resource wanted to tell the truth they simply would have reported what Elder McConkie said on page 822 OF THAT SAME BOOK under the heading VIRGIN BIRTH: “Modernistic teaching denying the virgin birth are utterly and completely apostate and false.” The church has never taught Mary was not a virgin when she gave birth to Jesus, EVER. This entire anti-Mormon resource futuredoc used and others like it, that twist truth and lie, should be considered invalid, flawed, untruthful, and the reader should question whether it is God’s influence or the influence of Satan that makes these writers lie to push forth their wicked AGENDA.
This usually happens when a anti-Mormons cannot think for themselves. The anti-Mormon books and websites are full of lies, half-truths, misunderstood truths and slanderous attacks. More often than not they get it wrong. They are a poor resource. They use quotes and writings of past prominent members of the church that are not contained in official church scriptures or doctrine. Some of the ideas expressed are personal opinions of these members and are definitely not doctrine approved by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Yet these books, websites, etc. falsely report they are official or “secret” doctrines of the church. Please give me a break.
Even the book titled MORMON DOCTRINE by an apostle of the church is not official church doctrine. Get your facts strait.
By the way LDS.org and Mormon.org are good websites for Mormon doctrine.
The truth is anti-Mormons cannot refute the truths poised in my earlier posts. So instead, they try to find any other belief the church has that they can “discredit” to “prove” the whole church is false. It’s called a straw man argument and is used by the weakest of minds. Instead why do you not try to refute the truths about the Trinity for instance. It goes to the heart of our differences yet you cannot refute it.
I will answer your straw man arguments (so you don’t think I am ducking) then challenge you just on your core belief of the Trinity which no one can successfully refute. READ PART 2.
WOW! PART 2.
CULT
First of all the, Protestant meaning of cult has become much different than the real meaning of a cult (look it up). Mormons, Jehovah’s witnesses and other “non-Christian” Christians are legitimate religions, legitimate denominations. Cults hinder socialization and education to protect and control the required mindset of the cult. Mormons are one of the most educated groups on the planet. Our leaders encourage college degrees, military service, and reaching out to non-members through socializing, politics and good will. Some of the most visible people and influential people in the world are Mormons. We are not cloistered or dumbed-down in any way. We are free to choose and fight to let others worship how they may (even if we believe they are misguided).
Being different than you does not make me a member of a cult.
PRE-EXISTENCE
The scriptures teach of our existence with Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ before the world was created. We are spirit children of our Heavenly Father (Acts 17:29, Romans 8:16, Hebrews 12:9) and we lived with him before we were born.
You mentioned Genesis 1:1. It does not say or even imply that there was only God before the creation. You also mentioned John 1:1. This scripture hurts your argument and helps prove there was more than one being before the world was created. The Word is Christ in this passage. Christ was God and was with God (interesting that both are God, we’ll get to that later).
God tells Jeremiah of his pre-mortal life in Jeremiah 1:5 “Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.”
John 9:2 “And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?” How could the man sin if he had not existed before he was born? Why would Christ’s disciples ask him this question if the pre-existence was not accepted doctrine?
There are many more scriptures, but these are plain enough.
FAMILIES IN HEAVEN
The Mormon Church teaches that the familial system will be present only in the highest degree of heaven. This is accomplished through the binding power given to Christ’s apostles (Matthew 16:19)
You quoted Mark 12:25 correctly, except you read it wrong. These eternal marriages must be preformed on earth BEFORE the resurrection or “when the dead rise.” If couples are not sealed together on earth…”When the dead rise, they will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.”(Mark 12:25)
THE VIRGIN BIRTH
NEVER a doctrine of our church to say Mary was not a virgin at Jesus’ birth. Even the quotes you use do not say otherwise. If God created the worlds why could he not place his seed in Mary without having sex. Heck, man can even do it.
THE NATURE OF GOD
God does have a physical body.
Your own scriptural reference proves it in Luke 24:37: But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit. Then Christ said in verses 38-39: And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts? Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
Christ was resurrected. Resurrection means to get your body back and never die again. Why do so many Protestants deny the resurrection? Christ taught about and lived it. He promised all of us the same blessing.
THE NATURE OF MAN
The Mormon Church does not teach men are by nature good. They teach the opposite. Elder Packer was speaking to a group of priesthood holders who have already taken the name of Christ, had been baptized and born again, made anew, etc. and then took upon them selves the priesthood. At that point in a person’s life they better have changed to be intuitively good. Of course, man can fall and often does.
The church does teach that babies come into the world neither bad nor good, rather innocent. Therefore there is no need to baptize them until they are old enough to be accountable and able to truly comprehend the sin.
THE IDENTITY OF GOD AND MAN
Your anti-Mormon source quotes from the book Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith and stops right before he will show from the Bible this true doctrine. Nice.
Be enlightened with Psalms 82:6, Matt 5:48, John 10:34, Acts 17:29, Romans 8:17, 2nd Corinthians 3:18, Galatians 4:7, Ephesians 4:13, Hebrews 12:9, 1st John 3:2, and Revelations 3:21.
God loves us. We are His children. He wants us to be like him. He wants us to be “joint heirs with Christ”, “sit in my throne” and share in all that the Father has. What a wonderful Heavenly Father.
Futuredoc says, “Furthermore, there are multiple Gods and men can become Gods.”
When God said in Gen 1:26 : God said, let US make man in our image… who was the “us” he was referring to??? And who was the “us” he referred to in Gen 3:22 ?
Don’t be afraid when scriptures seem to say the opposite things. Instead, try to find out how both of the scriptures are true. Obviously God was talking to other beings you believe were not there before. So make sense out of it. Don’t just say “this other scripture says this so you are wrong.” My beliefs can easily include the scriptures you point out. They do not prove my beliefs are wrong. After all, they are from the Bible!
THE TRINITY
When the scriptures say there is only one God it refers to the relationship of Heavenly Father, Jesus and the Holy Ghost. Christ made this very clear in John 17:20-23. The only other references are concerning the people of Israel and their terrible practice of returning to the worship of idols and false gods. Re-read my post above with the heading “The Trinity” to see all the references to Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ as two separate beings. You cannot refute these, so these Bible truths that they are one and they are not the same being must somehow work together. You will find the truth in Christ’s church, even the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.
I assume this will be my last post here. I have come across many Mormon bashing websites (I know this was not the intent of this website, but it ended up that way) and I know all I will get in return is more lame and weak arguments copied from anti-Mormon literature that do nothing more than perpetuate lies, falsehoods and misrepresentations. Once I refute those, then more pages will be copied in a never ending cycle of lies and refuting those lies. Nothing could be more boring. You have now bored me futuredoc and you other lazy anti-Mormons.
If you want to know the truth about the Mormons go to Mormons that actually read their scriptures, not to argue with them, but to learn why they believe the way they do. Any other way is disingenuous.
I feel like I have cast pearls before swine and given meat before you accepted the milk.
Remember, the scriptures do not lie. God does not lie. “Ye do err not knowing the scriptures.” Get to know them better before you criticize something you know very little of.
If “Mormonism” isn’t true, then the Christian God is a cruel being indeed.
A Christian is somebody who believes that Christ is the Messiah.
Yes, and the Mormons do NOT believe this.
Note some of what they believe about Jesus:
Jesus
The first spirit to be born in heaven was Jesus, (Mormon Doctrine, page 129.)
Jesus and Satan are spirit brothers and we were all born as siblings in heaven to them both, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 163; Gospel Through the Ages, p. 15.)
Jesus’ sacrifice was not able to cleanse us from all our sins, (murder and repeated adultery are exceptions), (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 3, p. 247, 1856.)
“Therefore we know that both the Father and the Son are in form and stature perfect men; each of them possesses a tangible body . . . of flesh and bones.” (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 38).
“The birth of the Saviour was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood – was begotten of his Father, as we were of our fathers.” (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 8: p. 115).
“Christ was begotten by an Immortal Father in the same way that mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers” (Mormon Doctrine,” by Bruce McConkie, p. 547).
“Christ Not Begotten of Holy Ghost …Christ was begotten of God. He was not born without the aid of Man, and that Man was God!” (Doctrines of Salvation, Joseph Fielding Smith, 1954, 1:18).
“Elohim is literally the Father of the spirit of Jesus Christ and also of the body in which Jesus Christ performed His mission in the flesh …” (First Presidency and Council of the Twelve, 1916, God the Father, compiled by Gordon Allred, pg. 150).
These things are NOT biblical and do NOT represent Christianity.
Sincerely,
Linda K.
I was right. Here come more of the lazy anti-Mormon quotes.
Christ is the Messiah and ALL Mormons believe this.
Good luck in your hate campaign Lind K. and the rest. Please take off your blinders and come to Christ.
There are plenty of areas (web-sites) to trash mormons, there are plenty of areas where LDS beliefs are defended. This area is to talk about Glenn Beck and his book. In reading all the previous posts (OK I skimmed some of the more lengthy ones) it seems those idividuals who don’t fall into the 2 camps (anti-mormon Christians vs. Mormon Christians) have already tuned this discussion out. I find Glenn to be funny and insightful. I enjoy entertainment that can make you think.
It’s too bad Glenn has been deceived by the mormon cult. Maybe he will continue to search for the real truth about Jesus Christ and truly believe the the real Gospel of the Bible. Until Glenn does realize he has been deceived, he will be in darkness. We all need to come to an understanding of Jesus Christ to know what life is really about.
The problem with Mormons is that they take Paul literally when he says that mankind is the “offspring of God,” and John the Revelator when he says that man has the potential to be “joint heirs” with Christ–and thus with God. They actually believe that Christ is God’s Son. Likewise, they believe that God authorized Abraham, Isaac and Jacob to practice polygamy and that God could therefore authorize Joe Smith to do the same.
On a less scriptural and more fundamental level, the Mormons also stubbornly refuse to believe in the true Christian God. We Christians know that Heavenly Father does not want his creations (even if He does refer to them as “children”) to continue to progress until they become eternal fathers themselves, thereby robbing him of his exalted station.
Why can’t they understand that God is a jealous father who sees mankind not really as his “children” but as eternal sheep with limited potential and an inferior status to himself?
I guess Mormons just have too much faith in mankind’s potential and in certain parts of the scriptures.
Why don’t they just admit that Jesus is their savior and be saved instead of going to all this work to become like God?
I would like to remind my fellow lds friends that we are asked to treat others kindly and respect others opinions concerning religion. Let work together with common respect.
For all you who believe you are Christian, and have a problem beleiving that mormons are not christians here is something to think about, first of all I am not disclosing my religion but I will say that I am a christian, but have you ever wondered about when Jesus was in the Garden of Getsemanie (my spelling is really bad, and I am to lazy to use spell check) why the Hell would he be praying to himself, you either have to be on coke, or drinking to start praying to your self. another example of why maybe the mormons believe taht the god head are three distince beings are in the bible for all you christian is when Jesus got baptised why the Hell would the voice from heven be jesus’ own voice, what are you guys thinking thinking. from that bit of evidence I think we can say that God and Jesus and the Holy Ghost are probably two separte beings, so I think that Maybe the Mormons have something right and the rest of you who clame to be Christians just plain stupid, I will tell you that my beliefs are my own and no one elses. and that Beck Rocks.
I FEEL TERRIBLY SORRY FOR THE MORMONS! GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT ABOUT JOSEPH SMITH. DO SOME EXTENSIVE RESEARCH ON JOSEPH SMITH INSTEAD OF RELYING ON SOMEONE’S INTERPRETATION. LIKE THE OTHER GUY SAID JOSEPH SMITH SET THE DATE WHEN JESUS CHRIST “WILL” COME BACK. GUESS WHAT —> HE DIDN’T COME BACK AND WHAT DID THE SCRIPTURE SAY ABOUT DATE SETTERS WHEN JESUS WOULD COME BACK?
Just found this site.
I too am LDS and live in a little town of 8,000 that has 8 Baptist Churches within 5 miles. A young man went to one Baptist Church but decided to attend another that allowed dancing and boys and girls swimming in the same pool. He then attend another and his parents arranged a meeting with his minister, who said negative things about the other two churches and their leaders.
The young man decided to look at the LDS Church and guess what – all three ministers came to visit him. He asked them why they each said negative things about the others….they were busted.
The young man joined the LDS church and has never been happier. Some wonder why the young people are not staying with the, “mainline churches”…this is one little example why the LDS church is growing so fast.
We believe in and teach from the King James Version of the Bible but realize that there are errors after all the various translations….which explains all the religions in the world and many factions within the same religion as stated above.
We have our religious differences but pray that someday we are not forced to go to church on Friday and the females in our country are not permitted to show their face in public. Those of us who believe in the Savior need to unite and put aside our religious differences and fight those who would force us to believe in a religion that teaches death to non-believers.
I have many non-Mormon friends and would never get into a heated arguement over religion or politics to harm our relationship. We talk about Glenn Beck all the time and deal with his desire to keep a balance in politics from a conversative perspective regardless of his religion.
Glenn Beck is great. He is funny. He is genuine. He is not a Republican hack like Rush. He is a Libertarian from what I gather.
Nazi, Socialists, and Liberals, vs. Libertarians are not closly related but some people don’t know what the lables really represent. Actually, Nazi’s were socialist like Stalen and Pol Pot.
I hear many liberals claim they are Libertarian until they start pushing government interference in all kinds of American life and buinesses for liberal causes. They don’t want government interference for liberal or socialist causes.
This religious debate is humorous.
You don’t have to agree with Mr. Beck’s religious beliefs, but if you agree with his social and political commentary, what’s the problem?
“Biblical Christianity”? What is that? Shouldn’t be New Testament Christianity?
Is not the current mainstream protestant/evangelical Christian belief for being saved is accepting Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior?
Do most mainstream protestant/evangelical Christians accept the word of God as Truth and that you should follow the Truth, according to the bible?
Do most mainstream protestants/evangelical Christians believe truth is absolute?
Who’s interuptation of the bible is correct? What interuptation is true?
Does it really matter what your church or preacher teaches, as long as you accept Christ as your Savior?
What is your minister is 80% correct about the big things and 20% wrong about less important things?
Are you going to hell, even though you believe in Christ, but your minister is not 100% doctrinally correct and you accept what he teaches?
Can all ministers or individual Christians be 100% correct in their interuptation of the Bible?
There is a lot of confusion and differing interuptations of what is Bible doctrine out in the protestant/evangelical world. Let me deal with just three of them…
1.) Some mainstream protestant/evangelical churches teach that baptism is required, some teach its optional, and others that its not required at all.
Which one is biblical? Which one is correct? They cannot all be correct. God is not the author of confusion. What is the Biblically correct view?
2.) Some churches teach baptism by immersion in water, others sprinkling of water, others oil, and others laying on of hands.
Which one is biblical? Which one is correct? Did man or God chose the manner of the various baptismal methods? God is not the author of confusion. Which form of Baptism is biblical?
3.) Some Christians believe and churches teach in Freewill and others Predestination?
Which doctrine is biblical? Which one is correct? These are two diametrically opposed doctrines.
God is not the author of confusion.
Something as critical as if you have Freewill or are Predestined cannot be both God’s doctrine.
If the definition of true Christianity based on “Biblical Christianity” then who’s interruption of key doctrines are correct.
What if a Mormon accepts Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, and has a personal relationship with the Lord?
What if a Mormon believes in the Bible as the word of God, but also accepts the Book of Mormon?
What is he believes his salvation is only through Christ and is following the Lord the best he can according to his interuptation of the Bible?
What if a Mormon is 80% right in the most important things in his beliefs about Christ, but is wrong in 20% as incorrect doctrines ?
What about a protestant/evangelical Christian that believes Jesus is Lord, but is only 80% correct in their understanding of correct doctrines?
Can any Christian make the claim of being 100% biblically, doctrinally correct? I don?t think so.
Does “Biblical Christianity” mean accepting the Christian Creeds definition of the Bible as correct doctrine?
This one cracks me up?.
The majority of Protestants and many Evangelical Christians get their doctrinal interuptations of the bible via the Christian Creeds.
Many of these same Christians believe that LDS Church and the Catholic Church are both CULTS?..
Where did the Christian Creeds come from?
The Catholic Church.
The Christian Creed did not come from Protestantism or Evangelical Christianity.
If the Christain Creeds from the Catholic Church are doctrinaly correct, how can the Catholic Church be considered a cult by some other churches that accept those creeds?
Some Christians claim the Catholic Church is a cult, yet they cling to a set of biblical doctrinal interuptations created by the Catholic Church via the Christian Creeds.
If Mormons are not considered Christian because of the strict definition that in order to be a Christian not only requires a belief in Christ, but also the belief in Biblical Christianity as being defined as by Christian Creeds, then Mormons are not Christian under that definition. Guilty as charged.
If being a Christian is accepting Christ as your personal Savior, having a change of heart to want to please God and live with Him, and trying your best to follow Christ’s teachings in faith, then Mormons are Christian under that definition.
Every person is to work out their own salvation with fear and trembling…also Acts Chapter 4, there is no other name under heaven where a person can be saved, except by the name of Jesus Christ…read John, Chapter One. That chapter reveals the attributes of our Creator, Christ Jesus…He also said He came unto His own and they knew Him not…Believe on the name of Jesus, and thou shalt be saved…confess it with thy mouth and believe it in thine heart and thou shall be saved…He is the Alpha and Omega, the King of Kings, the beginning and end…He’s all knowing, all powerful, all seeing. He knows all about our hearts desires and thoughts, and every number of hairs on our heads…Ephesians, Chapter 2…for we are saved by grace through faith, not of ourselves, lest any person should boast, it is a gift from God. That gift was “Grace”…Jesus Christ was all of “GRACE”…His mercy, love, and forgiveness…He gives grace to the humble, but resist the proud…so humble your hearts and ask Jesus to open your mind and heart, and allow His grace to flow through your spirit…In Jesus Name Amen…
wow, after reading all these I almost forgot I was on a glenn beck page (in fact i’m listening to him right now). he is amazing, a joy to hear, and a happy mormon, so deal with it. If the professional debaters in washington and the media can’t fool him, i highly doubt a couple of 19-year old boys from utah could.
i know the book of mormon is the word of God and Joseph Smith was His prophet, and through whom He restored His church. “one lord, one faith, one baptism” (eph 4:5) and know because i asked. for crying out loud, God knows if He talked to a 14-yr old in New York or not…He was there! i asked, just as Glenn did along will millions around the world, and I got my answer, and i will trust the Holy Ghost over any post on any website anywhere.
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W W G B D?
Glenn the sky is falling Beck is just crazy. He is going to get someone hurt with his crazy talk. Some folks who listen to him can’t distingush between his inane words and reality. They are going to hurt someone because they believe this man. I am afraid for our president and I am not kidding. Glenn has freedome of speech but man he is really pushing it hard. I pray no one gets hurt but I am very very afraid that some looney tunes will kill the president or will kill gays, blacks or hispanics because in Glenn the sky is falling world they are a threat. Please God that I am wrong but I have a really bad feeling about this man and what his words might do.
Jesus has a big tent. This is an argument that would make him cry.
Oh Yes… religion is the opium of the massess. You can take opium by intravenously, nasally, orally, or rectally…it still produces a very good HIGH. Some routes are very intense but short in duration and some are mild but last longer but stiil it still a good HIGH. Ask a true heroin addict who thicks he needs that high in order live or die. Any one those routes will do…in the end it still produces same results.
I personally dont like heroin but loves a good addiction to apple pie. We all have an addiction…that includes religion too…mine is apple pie. Unfortunately there is no Apple Anonymous chapter in my area, so I continue to crave and eat apple pies. To me it does not matter how it is made(commercialized vs homemade or name brand vs. generic brand or recipes past from 10th the generations or expermental recipe). As long as the main ingredient is apple I’m okay with it. Some folks, like it without sugar and some like it lots of sugar. Some ingredient use brown sugar and other use white sugar. Some freaky folks use “organic sugar” and others use “Splenda”. To me, it is still an APPLE PIE!!!!! I will it in a heart beat with no regards to how it is made because it is still an apple pie.
I can see how it can be confusing to so many people. I’m pretty sure God has very low expections of us (human beings). He knows that no matter how simple his message is…He knows that human being will still “#$%% it up”. Maybe, he purposely sent different religion so that each one of us or culture could relate. Do you ever wonder why He made so many races or why God said that He made man on His own image? Is God white, black, asian or Puerto Rican? In the end, the basic message of each religion is the same…love yourself and love your fellow man. To love yourself is to accept your faults as well as your strenght. Once you understand that concept it is easy to love your fellow man.
Mojo Grande
P.S. Jesus…please pass the blunt.