Glenn Beck’s “The Real America”
Definitely the best thing to come along in talk radio since Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck is rapidly becoming the “must-listen to” host of the decade. Limbaugh is still the King of talk radio (sorry Howard Stern), but Beck brings a freshness that has been missing. Politically, he manages to hit the nail on the head again and again, giving voice to what many of us already think and believe, but with an insightful approach that may differ from popular opinion. As an entertainer, he is often a riot to listen to. He and his writers come up with a variety of spoofs, fake callers, music and other parodies that successfully lampoon the sacred cows of today. Fortunately, the target is most often liberals and democrats.
Glenn has a new book coming out in late September. From listening to his show these past months, I am eager to get my hands on a copy of The Real America: Messages from the Heart and Heartland. I have a hunch that it will be required reading for all liberals.
As I have read through these posts, I see some of the same disinformation about Mormons that I have heard throughout my life. Yes, Mormons are indeed Christians. As Christ stated, “by their fruits ye shall know them.”
I bet none of you Mormon haters have ever got your facts from the Mormons, rather anti-mormon literature. If you are honestly passionate about religion and not just trying to knock other peoples belief than you will check out this website. http://www.mormon.org/question/faq/category/questions/0,8789,895-1-16,00.html
I came here looking for information about Glenn Beck and found a minefield where a bunch of people are talking and not trying to understand one another. Yes, I am LDS. One of my favorite movie lines of all time is in a Star Trek movie when Captain Kirk and Spock hitch a ride with a gal in a pick-up truck. Spock is acting kinda weird and to explain Spock’s behavior Captain Kirk says, “He had too much LDS in college.”
About the Mormon vs. Christian thing. Why is there a fight? The funny thing is the fight seems to all be in one direction. There is not a single argument above that was initiated by a Mormon telling Christians how wrong they are. I think Glenn came across this in a similar way I did even though I was raised with LDS parents. I prayed to my father in heaven and was told it is true.
What a revelation. Revelation is a good word for it. I try to get guidance for how I should live and act daily from my prayers. I haven’t depended on other’s beliefs.
Anyone here who completely and honestly live the best they can to follow the example of Jesus Christ to do the right thing each day of their life is doing very well. Pray to your father in heaven in the name of Jesus Christ. Start with a hope that your prayer will be answered. spend time where you can be in a quiet place with your God. As Jesus said, they Spirit will be sent to you. Thank your heavenly father you live in such a great country that we are free to listen to wholesome entertainment like Glenn beck. There isn’t much we have that didn’t come from God so I expect you will be in your romm for quite a while. Ask for help and assistance and the presence of his spirit in your life. I am so thankful we live in such a good country that we can openly discuss our differences and our similarities with each other. I think that the strongest similarity we should have is faith in Jesus Christ and. Get giudance from a living God in your prayers, and read your scriptures. You will not need anyone else to tell you what is true because God will tell you.
God told me and confirmed my belief through prayer. It is the same for all of us. God is not a respecter of men and will answer you the same as anyone else. I know God lives. He said “Here is my son Jesus Christ, here him.” as Jesus rose out of the water when John the baptist baptized him. The Holy Ghost descended in the form of a dove as the prophesied signal to John that this was the savior before him. Indeed Our father in heaven, Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost want us all to return to their presence after this very temporary life on terra firma.
You don’t have to worry about anyone’s narrow definition of what a christian is. Depend on Jesus Christ, learn about him and you will learn to know him. Mans understanding including mine is subject to many errors, changes and need for repentance as we strive to live like Jesus did. The overwhelming motivation of Jesus Christ’s life and mission was his love for us. I can honestly say I love you all and hope I see you in the future in God’s presence.
I’ve been a extremely longwinded and said a lot more than I intended so I will leave to think what you may, and hope your belief in Jesus Christ might be strengthened by my testimony. I know Jesus lives and loves us all the same, even if you are christian. lol…
Rod
As an ex-Mormon, I can attest that Mormons are the absolute masters at sophistry and the parsing of words to fit their meaning. If anyone thinks that Bill Clinton’s re-definition of the word ‘is’ is masterful, they should have a conversations with Mormon missionaries. These missionaries prey on people (like Beck) who are, or were, at one point in their lives confused, depressed and despondent.
And anyone who wants to truly understand the bad seed from which Mormonisim sprang, need only to closely examine the life of their founder, Joseph Smith. The man was 100% evil.
I had no idea that Glenn Beck was a Mormon until I read his bio on the CNN Headline News website. I have listened to Glenn Beck for quite some time and always thought he was a “Christian” but there was always a question for me.
I am not going to get into a huge debate over Mormonism vs. Christianity. I don’t think in this format it is helpful at all. What I will say is this: I am a Christian! I confess that Jesus died for my sins and that it is through His blood ALONE that I have my salvation. From this knowledge, i strive to live like he did and out of my life flow good works etc. These do not save me, only Jesus can save. If any LDS would like to debate, I am more than happy to have a peaceful, well thought out discussion. Please do not label me a hatemonger or a bigot because I disagree with Mormonism, I know what I believe and I know that I am saved by the blood of Christ.
My biggest beef with the Catholic Chrurch and the Mormon Church is there belief in “salvation through the blood of Christ and…” In other words, they add something else. Like I said before, it’s the blood that saves, NOTHING else.
In Christ,
EP
Wow…
I just got back from Iraq and discovered Glen Beck. He stands for everything I put my life on the line for. Freedom; freedom of religion, freedom of speech. Freedom from fear that someone would kidnap me in the middle of the night and take me out in the field and get massacred because I didnt believe in the same religion.
Wake up America and love each other. And love the diversity of religions etc.
Look yourself in the mirror and see the bigot you are looking at if you dispise a person for his religion.
I am not an LSD but I had three mormons in my unit and would prefer fighting next to them than next to a bigot.
Thank you, Lars, for serving our country. Because of you and those who have gone before you (including my father and my husband), we can have such discussions. It is too bad that freedom (at a philosophical level) allows bigotry (at a personal level); but such is the price for freedom. Again, thanks, keep that positive attitude, and good luck!
As a women who is a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, I just would like to say to all of the negative comments of my faith is that “WE DO NOT HAVE TO DEFEND THE TRUTH”. It is my belief that the people that spend so much time putting down our faith down are scared and uneducated of the truth in which is taught in our faith. I love my Father in Heaven and love the gospel. Here’s a challange: Invite the missionary’s into your home and allow them to teach you what our beliefs are and if you still don’t believe that is okay. At least you’ll know facts.
Thanks for reading.
This has been an interesting read on religion. I love some of the definitions of what is and isn�t a Christian. Mormonism is a cult huh? Guess you have a pretty sweet definition of what a cult is. I guess pretty much any organized religion is a cult to you. Beck�s never preachy, he doesn�t put himself above anyone (on a religious level, though he decidedly is higher up intellectually than lots those who have posted here, including myself). Why would you knock a guy for trying to improve his life? Beck went from an alcoholic headed down the drain to a man that millions, including myself enjoy listening to. If Mormonism did that for him, sweet. Isn�t your cup of tea? Halle-freaking-luiah, quit being so close minded. The debate on religion? If you don�t even define things the same, it�s pretty hard to have an intelligent argument. Hopefully anybody who had read this far in the postings realizes that �Christians� telling other �Christians� how wrong they are and that they are going to Hell makes as much sense as screen doors on submarines�I know, old joke but it does the job.
Believing it is ONLY the blood of Christ that saves, seems to discount the need to try to live a Christlike life. Mormons agree that it is ONLY the blood of Christ that redeems EVERYONE from mortality (caused by Adam’s sin), but living a Christlike life (or repentance) helps determine the QUALITY of that salvation on a personal level. Heaven, to a Mormon, is open to just about everyone who ever lived, or will live. I think that is a pretty Christian attitude. Hell, to me, would be to lump all of us together, with limited options.
Someone posted that LDS missionaries prey on people, such as Beck, who are confused, etc. Glenn wasn’t “in need” of religion when he went to a church meeting. It was to please his wife, and missionaries weren’t involved.
I’m not aware of a training program that missionaries go through to learn how to prey on people? Why are the majority of 19 yr old Mormon boys passionate about what they believe? I think they realize what a unique thing they really have. My missionary son was told by a woman that she would have given anything to know what she knows now, when she was younger, to have avoided so much sorrow in her life.
I am sorry to hear that Glenn Beck is LDS. I can say this because I was raised in this religion and Thank God I was able to leave. I really don’t think you who are defending this religion know not one little bit about this religion . Or as i like to call it “Cult”
Yes, when you are 12 and told to go to the temple , by your parents, to baptise in proxy, dead people, I am sorry, this is not Christianity. Know about something in at least a small extent , until you defend or fight for it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!I now pray for Mormons and all people, and NO i do not in the least judge anyone. They must walk their road.I can only walk mine.
I, for one, find it odd that anyone who claims to be a “Christian” has the balls to tell someone else that they are NOT. A Christian is somebody who believes that Christ is the Messiah. Beyond that there are hundreds of interpretations and ideas. While not a church goer myself, I can say that the Mormon people I know are some of the most Christ-like I’ve ever known. I also recall distinctly in the Bible it says that “Faith without works is dead.” My grandma always said that to us when we were kids. In other words, I can believe in the apple up in the tree, and I can come up with a great recipe for the pie…but unless I actually grab a ladder and pick the apple, nothing will come of my dreaming.
Frankly, I have the same feeling about certain Christian sects who say all they need to do is believe that Christ is the Messiah. So what? What good does that do you? Didn’t Christ also tell us to be compassionate to others? I always thought that being a Christian meant emulating his life…not just claiming to believe in him. I know too many people who claim that and are probably the most un-christlike people I’ve ever met.
Besides, anyone remember the story of Abraham and Isaac? Abraham had to prove his devotion to God, not just give a bunch of platitudes.
Diagreeing with Theology is onething, but tearing someone down on the very core of their being is so incredibly terrible.
Besides, how are these nasty comments about Mormons any different than anti-Semitic comments? I recall the Mormons had a pretty nasty history themselves with the government trying to kill them. And this was AFTER the US Constitution existed. Funny how people don’t talk about that much. I would never have known about it had I not been such a 19th century history buff.
Beth,
No one is attacking the person. It is the belief system that is in question.
Jesus, Himself, warned against false prophets and false messiahs. He called the religious leaders of His day “a brood of vipers”.
There is a difference between loving a person and accepting what they believe to be truth. Jesus loved people, but He said there was ONE way, and that He was it.
Mormonism does not match up with the Bible, no matter how much you want it to , and no matter how loudly you scream it.
Sorry, but that is the truth.
Does God love Glenn Beck? I’m certain of it.
Does He hate the way the LDS church has twisted truth?
Absolutely.
Lets face it, if the Mormon church wasnt growing like it is, nobody would be saying anything about it. Some people feel threatened. I mean no one has a problem with the idea of him being a part of voodoo, or at least it wouldnt take 6 pages of discussion on how people wont listen to him anymore because they found out he like voodoo. Just live your life and who cares what the other person believes.
And this discussion is precisely the reason I feel that organised religion is pretty much all a bunch of crap. Just be nice.
Just a reminder to the “Mormon Haters…” : Early followers of Christ had no Bible. If you had the courage to study the beliefs of early Christians, you might be found condemning them as well as those of the LDS faith. The doctrine of the trinity, imposed on the early church, is nowhere to be found in the Bible. The definitive turn away from the original teachings of Christ was the point when the pagan Constantine defined himself and his beliefs as “Christian.”
The real strength of the “Mormon” position is this: They claim that God Himself chose to come and set things straight. The only claim non-Mormon Christians have to truth is a book, a book that has been continually re-defined and modified by the whim of those who chose to beat up the opposition with the volume. Whereas Mormons claim continual revelation from the source, non-Mormon Christians have the book.
But then, so does Islam…
Reading all of your commments today I have come to one conclusion. You are all “SICK TWISTED FREAKS”
As a previous post said…’Glenn Beck is listened to for entertainment purposes.” C’mon people, get off all the soap boxes on Momonism and “real” Christianity. It has and always will be a faith issue regarding religion. Me? Im a born again bible thumping Southern Baptist. I guess the only real question is…Who is correct? The Bible with all Greek and Hebrew cross-references ? or The Book of Mormon with the teachings of Joseph Smith, W.W. Phelps, Joseph Merrill, Joseph Young, G.Q. Cannon, Bruce R. Mckonkie et al? please excuse if some were left out..God Bless!
You guys all rock!!
I was going to write my opinion but my eyes hurt from stareing at the computer to long. Mabye some other time.
Past Present Future baby….
I had to laugh really hard when I read Bob’s comments about mormonism. He thinks he’s so educated and so well informed. But I’ve noticed that he NEVER addresses any of the comments about the numerous questions about the BOOK he thinks is so correct. That’s typical for most anti-mormon’s. They want to attack but do little to defend their own weak arguments in regards to their beliefs.
Let’s be honest, most religion is based on pure faith. How many of you have actually talked God yourself….probably not one of you have. If you really come down to it, most of the scientific community thinks anyone who believes in God is crazy and insane. How can you deny the evidence of biological and genetic evolution. How can you deny the evidence of geology. Personally the only religion I know who’s attempted to address these concepts are mormons. Most of you do not know this because your so dang fixated on the whol trinity issue. Most of you so called “christians” have no concept of your own history. You just want to blindly scream about how mormons are deviant devils that need to be saved, instead of learning about your own deviant history.
What’s more enjoyable is watching how some of you sanctamonious christians are unwilling to address those posts that point the above facts out. You just want to harp on what your anti-mormon books claim you should do when you talk about mormonism in a public setting. It would be nice if some of you would plug in and turn on your brain..But that might be too much to expect…
I, having taking, a year and a half discussions from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, have come to the realization that Latter Day Saints are wonderful people. I have meant some of the greatest people in my life that are Latter Day Saints.
Not only have I been to, meaning stood outside, a temple, but I have also attended numerous youth functions that teach about the Latter Day Saint Church.
I have read the Book of Mormon, and have also read the Doctrines and Covenants, and The Pearl of Great Price, along with the Latter Day Saint version, I believe it is the King James version, Holy Bible.
Numerous times, on a Fast Sunday, I have prayed, and prayed, and prayed, trying to form some type of answer on whether the Church was true.
I recieved the answer, that I, myself being a human being, am a Sinner. We as people have the tendency to scream and shout, and fight one another on certain ideals, and doctrines, but can never come to a solid piece of evidence that backs any one religion. I believe there are two churches that could, doctrine wise, be correct. The Roman Catholic Church, and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. This is just doctrine wise. Every other donomination, or nondonomination church sprung from Catholic Church, or an LDS church. This is just in the realm of Christian churches. This excludes, Buddhism, Islam, etc.
We all, people searching for a religion, or people believing a christian religion, must agree that we are all sinners. That no human being is perfect.
Therefor, I know some of my great LDS friends have said, the Catholic Church is wrong, because some of the Popes were corrupt. Firstly, how many Popes have there been. And how many corrupt popes have there been? The exactly number is within a book, I’m reading, but I can guarantee you, the percentange is no of great significance to discredit the catholic church for all of it’s worths.
Next, for the LDS faith, if the bishop in your ward tried to change a certain part of the doctrine without consulting higher authorities, for example, Apostle, Stake president, wouldn’t you be suspicious and quickly try to remove them. Exactly. I went to http://www.lds.org, and found that there was an instance in UTAH, where a primary teacher was found molesting one of the children in a primary class. He was immediately removed from the church, meaning excommunication. Now, what we can see is, when being called to a position in the church, from a ward that is, that person must be called by the bishop, which must be called by God to tell him who he or she should pick for the job as the primary teacher. Because, the primary teacher was wrong in what he did, does not mean we should discredit the LDS church, one bit, but it proves that even though we have some of the strongest christians in our time present, doesn’t mean that there isn’t free agency still. The Popes in the Catholic Church, never did anything wrong towards Church doctrine, meaning never made the church do something it wasn’t suppose to, but because of free agency, did do other things that hurt their repretation as somebody who would guide a huge church.
This just proves that nobody is perfect, and that we shouldn’t discredit somebody based on their mistakes.
Anyways, My point is, no one is perfect. We are all sinners. After praying for a year and a half, I’ve discovered that from a Fast Sunday, that I, can never be a God. I love the LDS people with all my heart, and respect them, but from http://www.lds.org, I’ve discovered, that they believe, if you live the great LDS live, that you will one day be able to have your own planet, just like God has ours. I just can’t believe that myself being a sinner, and making mistakes, and always struggling can ever be a God, can never have the same role as our merciful God has. That’s just where I have to stand on that issue.
If I can, I’ll try to explain the Trinity more clearly.
From the bible, I’ve come to the conclusion, that God, Jesus Christ, and The Holy Spirit, are all equal in power. Missionaries of the Mormon church told me, that Jesus Christ was the God of the Old Testament. I believe that God can not create something equal to himself, that he must become these beings to fulfill their duties, and powers.
A passage that was referred too earlier, God sent down the Holy Spirit, to baptize his Son. Mormon, missionaries, tried to get me to understand that, when Christ was baptized, God’s voice was heard, and the Holy Spirit Came down. The obvious three beings are there.
We can not take everything we read in the bible Literally, but must see some of the things through a more metaphoric way.
Jesus Christ, is God in human form. The Holy Spirit is God in spirit form. God is the Almight creator of Heaven and Earth.
Jesus tells us in the Bible, constantly, I am one with the Father. Missionaries discredit this and say that he means, one in purpose. I don’t believe that. Jesus constantly repeated, You are, me and I am you, Only you can give me strength for this. Jesus was perfect. He did not commit one sin. That perfection can only be seen through God. If anybody can name another person that was completely perfect besides Jesus Christ, and The Virgin Mary, please do so. I believe that the Virgin Mary, was pure, because she had to give birth to God, Jesus Christ. The reason God gave himself in Human form, the name, Son, was to not only create a better understanding for the people of earth, but to show how earth could treat a simple human. If Jesus went around saying, I’m actually God in Human Form, and showed his abilities and powers, does anybody think that anybody would mess with him. No. I believe that God, himself, as Jesus Christ, died for us, and our sins. That is truly remarkable, and a truly worthy Being to worship.
I believe that we should keep searching our souls for what is right. I know that God loves me, for who I am, and that no matter how many mistakes I make, I can keep scramming for strength to get back on the right track. I just honestly don’t believe that I can ever become a God. I respect the LDS faith, and I love the people, I’ve been around them, missionaries, camps, fire sides, sacrament meetings, for a Year and a half, I just can’t find it in myself to say that I can become a God.
Good luck to any of you searching for your faith, and for your beliefs.
I know that missionaries, and great Latter Day Saints, say that they prayed for their answer, and it was true. I tried so hard to do the same, and gain the same testimony. I researched so much, studied so much. I just recieved a different answer. Please don’t judge me on my answer, I really tried. I just couldn’t do it.
May God Bless you.
Isn’t it funny that these proclaimed “Christians” like Jonna are the most unloving, unaccepting unchristlike people in the world? it makes me laugh. The Southern Baptists are such a joke… I mean how far from being Christ-like can you get?
The LDS church is a church of love and service. How often have you found latter day saints criticizing other religions? The way we teach is not that of criticism, but that of love.
Clearly in the bible, it never states that the father, the son, and the holy ghost are one. Multiple times it shows Christ’s communication with God.
If you have any questions regarding Mormon doctrine, you can email me at [email protected] and I will do my best to answer your questions with references to the Bible.
Thanks!
Mormons are as “Christian” as Moonies and David Koresch. That Beck is a CONVERT to Mormonism is all the more disturbing. His recent apocalyptic bleatings are not only false but dangerous.
Thanks for the “enlightenment” Mr. Promethues. Your grasp of the subject and ample documentation is amazing. Oh, by the way… What is your definition of a “Christian,” and who made you the arbiter of who is and who isn’t one? Feel free to drop me a note, [email protected]. (That’s a zero after the k, not an o.)
One more sensible take on this Mormon theology thing (I feel compelled to write something about this):
PROPHETS
Of course Christ and the Apostles warned of false prophets. That is good advice. I remember the repeated warnings clearly. I also remember it was never beware of ALL prophets, or even beware of prophets. It was FALSE prophets. So obviously good prophets will exist, and so will slander (anyone can be defamed – even Christ and the Apostles were defamed – that doesn’t make their defamation true). There were false prophets in the Old Testament times, in New Testament times and in modern times. There were also true prophets in Old Testament times, New Testament times and our modern times.
Amos 3:7 Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets. (King James Version – the most authentic translation by the way).
Prophets were clearly part of the early church (Acts 13:1, 15:32, 21:10, 1Cor. 12:28, Eph. 2:20, 3:5, 4:11). The scriptures clearly show that when Christ is not living on the earth, He speaks through his prophets.
THE “TRINITY”
Besides being determined by vote hundreds of years after Christ’s death, rather than by scriptural reproof, the Trinity idea falls on its face when the scriptures are understood.
Here are just a fraction of truths from the Bible:
Gen 1:26 God said, let us make man in our image…
John 5:19 …The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do…
John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment to the Son.
John 17:21-22 That they may all be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they may also be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one.
Acts 7:55-56 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up steadfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God. And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.
John 8:17-18 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true. I am one that beareth witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.
Please, enough already that the Father, Son and Holy Ghost are this morphing magical show of indefinable mystery from one being. That would make God a liar, and no God-fearing person wants to think of him in that way.
These few scriptures (among many) help explain why the Son actually prays to the Father and not himself, and when Christ was baptized that Father actually did speak out loud from above and Christ wasn’t showing his power as some great ventriloquist.
Now to Glenn Beck. He knows a life with and without his faith. He chooses a life with his faith. He had to take upon himself the name of Christ to be baptized (full immersion by someone with authority). Each week at church he renews the covenants he made to always remember Christ and keep his commandments. When he says he is a Christian, he means it, and he knows he is not perfect and must repent everyday for the new sins he commits, and he knows Christ’s mercy and grace is sufficient for him. That is essentially the foundation of the Mormon faith, all salvation is through Christ and we must remember him and show our love for him by keeping His commandments.
FAITH AND WORKS
By the way, the scriptures are clear that if you love Christ you will obey his commandments. Paul wrote to his son Titus saying “They profess they know God; but in works they deny him…” (Titus 1:16). Works are an important component to faith, not something separate. It’s faith and works not faith vs. works. This one is too easy to spend time on.
I will take any Christian Mormon theologian (yes they are Christian in every sense of the word) up against any so-called Christian theologian on any religious topic, including the Trinity, modern revelation, faith and works, etc. The truth is, most bible thumping Christians do not know their scriptures, though they profess to. I came up with these verifications on my own, not very difficult to do. I am a Bible thumping Mormon, and I am most certainly a Christian, a true believer in Christ and the scriptures. I only wished my anti-Mormon friends knew their scriptures and would quit attacking what they no nothing of.
As Christ said, “Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.”
Don’t take offense that I say you do not know the scriptures. Instead get to know them more so you do not err.
Wow. According to Mormons monotheism is a later invention. It doesn’t take much research to see that the idea is replete in the Old and New Testaments and the pre-Nicea church fathers (hint: pre-Nicea means before the roman catholic church supposedly invented the idea). Yes the church fathers were wrong about alot..and Rome hijacked things…but to claim they invented the idea doesn’t cut it.
The “non-judgmental” mormons teach that Christianity utterly failed for 1500+ years until Joseph Smith brought it back. By the way…the book of Mormon tells how the American Indians were actually descended from the lost tribes of Israel (con men really know the buttons to push don’t they). That idea was quite popular at the time, as found in a widely read book called “View of the Hebrews” published in 1825. I guess the angel was waiting for that to be published before revealing the secret to Smith.
Always the same though…the simple Gospel is attacked. Go ahead and believe that there are many gods, that you will become a god and that people get to heaven by following a set of rules…
…but the real Gospel is much simpler than that. God Himself took the blame for our sins when He died on the cross and rose again..and only simple faith in that fact will bring eternal life with the Lord. Not our efforts, but His alone…
Glenn seems nice enough to listen to. I agree with most of what he has to say and he makes me laugh, another reason why he is worth listening to.
I am a born again type, but I am human too and for the Christian person who “doesn’t want to expose your kids” to a Mormon. I got news for you. Your kids will grow up exposed to all kinds of people in the world. Your job as a parent is to tell your kids if you disagree with someone or something out there. It’s called teaching or imparting your values to your children. So I will continue to listen. Glenn did seems a bit confused on TV last night, however. Perhaps he was simply nervous. Anyway, I pray for Glenn’s salvation and for any other Mormon or religious person who thinks they found the truth.
Jesus said:
“I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.”
John 3:5
“You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.'”
John 3:7
This is amazing; people have been debating Glenn Beck’s religious preference since DEC 2003. WOW!
I must admit to being a little confused.
Not about my faith, for I am firmly a Latter-day Saint.
What I’m confused over are my feelings.
I don’t know if I should be happy because we are discussing Christ. Because that has its own merits. This is true, even if our points of view are different.
Or
If I should be saddened by the obvious fact that while the world tears itself apart, we are comfortably busy allowing ourselves to be blinded and distracted by our own prejudices.
Salvation is of paramount individual concern, this is true. But as Americans we collectively have more urgent concerns. One of the most important of these includes making sure we continue to have the freedom to have different religious views.
People like Jesus Freak, Jonna, Benny, Eric, Shellie, and Jim, seem to need to proclaim their “christianity” so loudly; probably because otherwise, no one would know.
No, mormons are not Christians. They TRY to be good moral people. But their entire religion is based on good works and Not the saving blood of Jesus. They do not believe in saved by grace and what Christ did on the cross. The continually think they have to work their way into their (3) different heavens. They get baptized for dead people they don’t even know. The husband also has to call the wife out of her grave by her secret name given to her in the secret temple marriage ceremony along with her secret garments she wears. No CHrist said we are not to do things in secret but let everyone know of the saving blood of Christ and yes, Holy Spirit, Christ and God are ONE GOD. Mormons believe in more than one god. They believe they will become as God is. THey also have too many additional books to their religion. They believe what the Bible says as long as it doesn’t disagree with their other books. Please go to websites those who are interested and do some research. I like Glen, but for a smart cookie, he sure is dumb and blinded on his religion of mormonism. He needs to think of his children first and then of everything going on around him. He’s kind of gaining the world and losing his soul to false teaching.
Ok, mormons – We love you all as fellow humans. We think of you as nothing less than such and are not engaging in personal attacks. I truly believe your intelligence is completely in tact! In fact, I am in medical school and 8 of my classmates are mormons. Clearly, you are an intelligent group. Now, about your institution – this is where we have some serious (serious) differences. You believe this, too. You believe we are following a theology that was “made up” by the Roman Catholics. And, when WE hold your god and gospel up to ours for comparison, they differ. SO, as Christians, we MUST make these distinctions as clear as possible, as to not defame God and as to not misrepresent ourselves to others. Christians reject mormon beliefs, and therefore refuse to be lumped into the same category as mormons just because we both believe in moral behavior. This is the same thing that you do when you reject the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints as invalid. So, the “attacks” are not personal at all. We just reject the institution with which you affiliate yourselves.
How does one define a Christian?
Can someone who believes that Jesus Christ is the son of God and tries to follow His teachings, regardless of how one interprets them, be classified as a “non-Christian?” It seems contradictory to me. I consider myself a Christian who belongs to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. (Nicknamed “Mormon”)I believe I am saved by God’s grace after all I can do to show my faith in Him by my actions. Works, alone, will not save me. Without Christ’s grace, I am lost anyway. However, without effort on my part to follow Him, He will not accept me (grace).
I like Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Dr Laura, Sean Hannity — None are perfect, but they stand for something. Much truth can be gleaned from them.
Again, this is the crux of the matter here. The mormons do not believe in the biblical Jesus of Nazareth, nor the biblical God, nor the biblical Gospel. This is the distinguishment we must make. You believe in a god (many actually), a jesus (one that differs from the biblical Jesus), and a gospel (which does not fully rely on grace). Instead of being called Christians (referring to the biblical Christ), a better name for mormons may be Smithians (following the teachings of Joseph Smith). It is not about WORDS here. It is about definitions. As discussed by many others on this thread your definitions differ greatly from biblical definitions. It’s like serving a bowl of grits and calling it steak.
Hi futuredoc, Doyleen and the other so-called “chirstians”,
I will use your logic to declare all of you as non-christians.
You are more correctly seen as Protestants. Most of the thinking world lumps Protestants, Catholics, Mormons and any believers in Christ into the Christian category. However, it is only Protestants that seem to want to kick others out and damn the rest to hell. Well, that isn’t how the judgement works.
You do not believe in the biblical Jesus of Nazareth, the biblical God, nor the biblical Gospel (mormons do).
Your belief that one being is all three members of the Godhead goes against the bible (mormons and anyone that can read knows how Jesus explains they are “one”: John 17:21-22 That they may all be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they may also be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one.) No mystery here.
Mormons believe in the gospel that IS fully reliant on grace. There is no salvation without it. However, the bible is clear that you must continually repent and continually do good works to continue in God’s grace. futuredoc should study his scriptures more (but he is too busy with schoolwork though – maybe someday).
Calling mormons Smithians would mean mormons worship Joseph Smith. Nope, Mormons worship Jesus Christ. That kind of makes sense since the church bears His name.
Mormon definitions instead rely on the text of the bible rather than the traditions of Protestants that have tried to twist and pervert the true word of God.
God bless the Protestants because most of them try to understand and they truly care. Just become intimate with your scriptures, read them, feast upon them, pray about them, and above all do not rely on others (pastors, preachers, etc. who must keep you near to earn a living) for the truths of the gospel. God will make all things more plain to you as you understand better.
Protestants can reject mormon beliefs all they want. They are only rejecting the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Call me a christian or not. If you do not, it just shows your ignorance and the rest of you arguments fall equally flat.
Maybe you missed the post I made earlier. You cannot refute those plain and simple truths. They are mormon beliefs and go to the core of your misguided teachings.
You have found Jesus, now find His gospel. I will be happy to share it with you.
Lonny,
It is at least refreshing to hear a mormon talk about the very important differences between our beliefs. I wish that mormons would talk about these KEY differences more often. Too many times my mormon friends have tried to convince me that our beliefs are very similar and, as you have agreed, they are not. Now, of course, you think you are believing in something true, and your response attests to that. It’s not necessarily my goal here to talk you out of being a mormon. That would, in fact, be wonderful, but you’re kinda hardened at this point. My goal is to make sure that the distinction is clear between mormons (or “book of mormon christians”) and Christians (be us catholics, protestants, or no denomination at all). So, thank you for coming from the other side and pointing these differences out.
futuredoc,
i must protest in some small regard. your intentional disregard of “proper” capitalization is disrespectful and arrogantly childish – so please cease.
Now, I will do likewise.
It is interesting that you did not choose to challenge any of Lonny’s comments. I hope you are seriously studying what Lonny has said. If you do you’ll see that he (or she) is correct on every point. But what you may not understand is that he has gone easy on you.
You mentioned that your friends focus more on the similarities rather than the differences. They are doing this out of respect for you. They don’t want you to be uncomfortable around them and to some degree the opposite is true. They are trying to converse on common ground.
Mormonism is very different, but we have a lot of common ground as well. Can we not simply choose to stand together as Christians? Viva le difference – sorry, my French stinks.
For just a moment suspend you protestant defense mechanisms and ponder this:
We live in a world where church attendance is dropping – especially outside the U.S. Radical Islam threatens the world. Many in the world deny Christ’s existence. Many more who may acknowledge that he could have lived, deny his divinity or say that he was just a wise teacher. There are some (the book Holy Blood, Holy Grail to name one) who say he might even be a fraud or a charlatan. They deny the crucifixion ever took place as we understand it. The family and Christian based values are constantly under attack. Some even blame the Judeo-Christian faiths and those very values for what is wrong in the world. Depressing isn’t it.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints says: “Nope” it’s all true. We have a modern witness that Christ did in fact live and walked this earth and the events of his life happened, pretty close to how they are recorded in the New Testament and the Book of Mormon and that he still lives. We stand up, in the darkness of the world, often alone, to proclaim: “CHRIST LIVES, HE IS THE AUTHOR OF OUR SALVATION!” And yes we mean the Christ of the Old and New Testaments.
(I know what you’re thinking, so don’t go there, you’ll just be wrong again – just kidding – laugh its ok).
I appreciate the post. About the caps/no caps – Again, I am trying to distinguish between the two (very different) systems of beliefs. No personal attacks are valid in this argument.
It is important to make a distinction between groups that claim to be Christian and those that make no such profession. For example, it would not be meaningful to speak of Islam as a cult of Christianity since it makes no claim to be Christian. Indeed, Muslims are generally anti-Christian. Islam is a world religion that opposes Christianity, but it is not a cult. Jehovah’s Witnesses and Mormons, however, do qualify as cults of Christianity because they claim to be Christian — indeed, to be the only true Christian group on earth.
The reason that I haven’t gone into more details as to our differences is due to the fact that (1) you are probably already aware of our differences because this isn’t the first Mormon/Christian debate you’ve had and (2) many others on this thread have pointed out such differences (both Mormons and others). But alas, I will strengthen my argument that we are VERY DIFFERENT groups by giving some more observations.
The following are the reasons why “Christianity” and “Mormonism” should be distinguished between (if you disagree with the exact names used, consider them simply as representative of the systems of belief):
Minor Differences:
Preexistence
The Mormon Church teaches that the soul existed with God before creation.
“Before you were born, your spirit lived with God. This premortal life is sometimes referred to as the preexistence. In this setting, you had the opportunity to grow, mature, and learn many eternal truths from our Heavenly Father. Yet you yearned to be more like Him.”(ww.mormon.org)
Scripture teaches differently.
Before Creation there was only God (Gen 1:1, John 1:1)
The Familial system.
The Mormon Church teaches that the familial system will be present in heaven.
“The Lord revealed to Joseph Smith that the “same sociality which exists among us here will exist among us there [in eternity], only it will be coupled with eternal glory” (Doctrine and Covenants 130:2).
“Family members who accept the Atonement of Jesus Christ and follow His example can be together forever through sacred ordinances performed in God’s holy temples.” (www.mormon.org)
Scripture teaches differently.
“When the dead rise, they will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.”(Mark 12:25)
Major Differences
The Virgin Birth
“The birth of the Saviour was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood – was begotten of his Father, as we were of our fathers.” (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 8: p. 115)
“Christ was begotten by an Immortal Father in the same way that mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers” (Mormon Doctrine,” by Bruce McConkie, p. 547)
Scripture teaches that Jesus was born of a virgin.
Jesus was born of the virgin Mary (Isaiah 7:14; Matt. 1:23)
The nature of God
The Mormon Church teaches that God has a physical body.
“The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s” (Doctrine and Covenants 130:22. Compare with Alma 18:26-27; 22:9-10)
“Therefore we know that both the Father and the Son are in form and stature perfect men; each of them possesses a tangible body . . . of flesh and bones.” (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 38).
Scripture teaches differently.
God is a spirit without flesh and bones (John 4:24; Luke 24:39)
The Nature of Man
The Mormon Church teaches men are by nature good.
“It is critically important that you understand that you already know right from wrong, that you’re innately, inherently, and intuitively good.” (Elder Boyd K. Packer of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, quoted in Duties and Blessings of the Priesthood, Part B, p. 186)
Scripture teaches the opposite.
Man is by nature a sinner (Ps 51:5; Eph 2:3; all of Romans)
The identity of God and Man.
Here Joseph Smith declares that God was once man. He says that God dwelt on earth before He was God.
“God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens!………..It is the first principle of the gospel to know for a certainty the character of God……..yea, that God himself, the father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ himself did; and I will show it from the Bible…. (from Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith and History of the Church, 6:302-17)
Furthermore, there are multiple Gods and men can become Gods.
“The Gods who dwell in the Heaven…have been redeemed from the grave in a world which existed before the foundations of this earth were laid. They and the Heavenly body which they now inhabit were once in a fallen state….they were exalted also, from fallen men to Celestial Gods to inhabit their Heaven forever and ever.” (Apostle Orson Pratt in The Seer, page 23)
Scripture teaches the exact opposite.
There is one God (Deut 6; Isaiah 43:11; 44:6,8; 45:5; Mark 12:29).
God has always been God (Psalm 90:2; Isaiah 57:15)
Now we could get into a critique of the internal, external, and bibliographic tests of Maroni’s gold plates, but that’s not the purpose here. All we are asking is that we stop being misrepresented.
I’m honestly wondering why we do not have Mormons also asking for a separation, as both sides are being grossly misrepresented by being lumped together.
While there are some similarities between the two systems of belief, there are extremely significant core differences! Anyway I hope this clears up some of the questions you had about why we should make our differences very clear. I’m not trying to convert anyone on this thread as most are in defense-mode anyway.
The point of this argument is not even about who’s right and who’s wrong (because you clearly think that what you believe is right). My goal here is to proclaim that what your church believes DIFFERS GREATLY from what our church, known commonly as “the Christian church” (inc. Catholics, Protestants, Non-denominational institutions) believes. What more needs to be said about this?
Take care.
Consider this: Feel free to call yourself whatever you want. What comes out of the previous posts is that self-professed non-LDS Christians base their beliefs on a book called The Bible. LDS Christians base their beliefs on not only the Bible, but on continuing revelation from God, as they understand it. Take away the Bible, and what do non-LDS Christians have?
Any honest student of religious history immediately notices the evolution of Christian thought since the time of Christ. We see how the nascent church enjoyed the leadership of the apostles, yet eventually fell prey to the decisions of “Councils” and self-serving despots such as Constantine, who decided to declare himself a Christian to solidify his hold on the empire. The current non-LDS Christian attitude (not held by all, incidentally) about LDS-Christians mimics well the attitude of the Crusades.
Like Muslims becoming excited about the desecration of the Koran, a non-LDS Christian becomes incensed when his particular interpretation of his particular version of the Bible is questioned. The intensity of religious difference comes into sharp contrast as the history of denominational conflict is studied. How many non-Catholic Christians would approve of the idea of the Veneration of Mary? Yet, which is “Christian?” Well-meaning non-LDS Christians are often unaware of the historical twists of thinking manifest along the years.
What is particularly distressing to non-LDS Christians is the idea that someone else will not worship the book they do. To the LDS, the Bible is one of many resources from God, yet not an object of worship. To believe that the Bible is an unchanged work is to turn a blind eye to reality. The continual beating over the back and shoulders of “I’m a Christian and you are not” becomes boorish to the extreme. If being a Christian dictates the misrepresentation of another’s belief for the sake of “Christianity”, then where is the morality of Christianity?
If there is one principle from the Bible that applies, it is that just saying you are something does not make it so. Satan would like to be God, but his actions tell us otherwise.
PS: This obsession with separating LDS-Christians from non-LDS Christians is such a waste of time and resources. Joseph Smith never suggested that non-LDS folks were not Christian. It seems to me that saving one’s own soul should consume most of our time. Smith merely said that God appeared to him and gave him direction. Saul of Tarsus made the same claim. Paul endured the persecution of the Jews in his day for the differences he proclaimed. The LDS position will neither rise nor fall on the non-LDS opinion of it. Both groups will be blessed if they follow the precepts of Christ. There are bigger fish to fry in the world. As someone once said, “Talk often divides us, but actions sometimes unite us.”
PPS: Here’s what Joseph Smith said about his religion: “The fundamental principles of our religion are the testimony of the Apostles and Prophets, concerning Jesus Christ, that He died, was buried, and rose again the third day, and ascended into heaven; and all other things which pertain to our religion are only appendages to it.” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 278)
It appears that ones belief about the inerrancy and inspiration of the Bible profoundly influences how one interprets biblical passages.
It appears that the Mormons are now trying to argue that the Bible is fallible (like their so-called inspired text). If the Mormons truly do believe this, then the Bible loses ALL credibility and they should throw the whole book out, which is essentially what they have done anyway. After all, you cannot serve two masters at once, thus you cannot believe that you are going to be a god if you believe the Biblical God when he says that He is the only one. Period. Satan is a big fat liar and one of his best tools is the Mormon church. Anything to take away God’s glory.
Here’s some verses that you can toss out as well:
“Before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour” (Isaiah 43:10-11).
“I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God” (Isaiah 44:6).
“Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any” (Isaiah 44:8).
“I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself” (Isaiah 44:24).
“There is none beside me. I am the LORD and there is none else” (Isaiah 45:6).
“There is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me. Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else” (Isaiah 45:21-22).
To Phil in Atlanta. Oh yeah, its so horrible that the built such a beautiful ediface in San Antonio in placing an LDS temple. I feel sorry for you. And your comment that you simply have to pass the 4th grade to know that “mormonism” is a fairy tale shows how ignorant you are. I guess that is why so many mormons are hugely successful doctors, lawyers, politicians, athletes and businessmen, because they are foolish. I wonder who is the more foolish?
As I went out with the LDS missionaries the other day and visited a family, we got out of the van and about 5 guys ran over to us, following us to the door while the whole way they spat such foulness out of their mouths, but it wasn’t directed at “mormons”, it was directed at the Savior. The things they said were so foul that I would never consider writing them. How they knew we were coming and how they came out of seemingly no where was a shock to me, but the whole time they spewed offenses at their redeemer, I thought of the scripture, “Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil for my sake. Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.”
After I thought of this scripture, I was reassured of the righteousness of the LDS missionaries mission and that we were doing right in the eyes of the Lord.
When I read much of the bigotry on this web-site, it furthers my testimony of the truthfulness of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. When I read people reviling against Christ’s restored church, I rejoice because of its truthfulness!
There is one God.
Masked, pretty, intelligent, moral-acting and “persecuted” evil is still evil.
ONE God. Do not ignore the scriptures. Let your heart melt and be humbled at the sound — ONE GOD.
Yes, you are exactly right ONE. We shouln’t ignore the scriptures. If we perceive someone is “evil” and our enemies, we should follow the Savior’s admonition and “love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you and persecute you” and we shouldn’t condone persecution, because we are all the Children of God!
Dear “One”: So, what is your point? Of course, until the Deuteronomic Revision of the Old Testament writings, the concept of “One” as you seem to understand it was unheard of. The assumption that LDS belief conflicts with the idea of one God in three persons is incorrect. Jesus never set a belief in the Hellinized tradition of “The Trinity” as a prerequsite for salvation. Go and review the story of the rich young ruler.
Wow. After reading three years worth of threads the conclusion I have reached is that “Mormons” and “Christians” both believe in Jesus. “Christians” claim to know the correct interpretation of the Bible, Mormons claim to know the correct interpretation of the Bible. So, who is correct. A “Christian” can not prove his or her interpretation is any more correct than a Mormon’s interpretation. I want to hear from any party who was present at the time when the biblical teachings were established. Who among you will claim that you know the design of God in all things? As for the infallablitly of the Bible, anyone who believes that it is in its origional, unadulterated, and chronological format has no place in an intellectual conversation and must be dismissed as a zealot or ignorant. You all talk of knowing one denomination’s veracity over another. I don’t know much about mormons, but they teach that the only way to God is by following the teachings of Jesus. They use multiple sources they claim help them understand the teachings of Jesus better. I don’t have a problem with that. I believe most Christians are the same and practice that which brings the Spirit closer to their lives. Let’s grow up a little bit and quit with the little bumbersticker cliches, “Three in one” and “Mormons are not Christians”. Mormons did not exist at the time of Christ, Protestants did not exist at the time of Christ, Baptists did not exist at the time of Christ. Even the Bible says that people will be ever learning, but never arriving at a knowledge of the truth. At least the Mormons proport continuing revelation that God defines his will. Who is right and who is wrong? I believe those whose lives most clearly reflect the life of Jesus would be right. Who selflessly serves? Who gives? Who loves their neighbor? I cannot imagine the persons who have pasted such ugly and derrogatory commentary would be in God’s good graces. It is up to every individual to do the things that bring them to God. Of course, none of this will make any difference to most of the people reading and participating. So many seem to think that their salvation depends, not upon faith or works or whatever, but by proving to the world that Mormons are not Christians. Perhaps the Mormon flavor of Christianity is too difficult for its critics to live, so they try to destroy it. It seems to me that that is what the Jews did to Jesus. Maybe Mormons need to do a better job of reaching out to Christians. I don’t know the answers. If people act Christlike whether Christian or Mormon, how is that detrimental to the cause of Christ? If this is a mere numbers game of who has been around longer or who has more followers, Catholics, Mormons, crazy Christians and sane Christians are all wrong. Why don’t you agree to disagree and enjoy you commonalities. God is gonna sort it all out in the end anyway.
PS let’s not forget the agnostics, atheists, Muslims, Buddihsts, Hindus, and all other denominations, some whose lives correspond more closely to the life and teachings of Jesus that some Christians (Mormons or otherwise) who say, “I believe and am saved so be damned with the other 2,000 pages of the teachings of Jesus”
To Christians, GB, it is a life or death situation. If you have opposing beliefs (LDS, Islam, Hindus..etc) you are free to do so, and I will always stand by mankind’s right to have such a freedom. The God of the Bible (and remember the Bible is only valid if it is the infallible written word of God) is very explicit about His nature and plan of salvation for mankind. If individuals (using their freedom) decide not to believe His text or only believe part it, they clearly are following something other than the Church known as “Biblical Christianity”. They are choosing another route and again, Biblical Christianity rejects other routes, other gods, other gospels. Let’s not dilute this fact by saying that good people who at least believe the parts of the Bible that work into their own belief system are a part of the Biblical Christian family. By Biblical definition, they are not. No good works, though they come as fruits of Christianity, will suffice (Eph 2:8-9), no other way of salvation exists (Acts 4:12), and there is only one God (Ah, this is everywhere in the Bible, again if you choose to believe in the validity of it). God is a jealous God (Deut 4:24, Ex 20:5, Ex 34:14;
Sorry future Doc, that just doesn’t cut it. I know you are sincere, but sincerity just is not enough. I know you’re probably a moderately intelligent person, but intelligence isn’t enough. Your premise that you are right has no god given authority. If god is the same always and unchanging, why would he change his method for revealing truth? He has always provided additional teachings throughout time and persons chosen by him to interpret the teachings, I assume he did this because he knew people would come in and screw up what he said either from innocent ignorance or cunning design. The evidence of this problem emerges countless times in the old and new books of the bible. Only years after christ himself died Paul had to run all over the region correcting false teachings. Were all of these people bad? Of course not, they just did not have authority or understanding from god. Yet, new Christians run around with the exact same claims as the Romans, Ephesians, Phillipians, etc. Where is our John the Baptist? Where is our Paul? Where is our Peter? Who receives the revelation from Christ and God above to correctly interpret his many commandments. No futuredoc, not good enough. I am looking for what Christ made and looking to understand it how he intended. I am not looking for a Baptist or Lutheran, or born-again, or even my interpretation of the word of God. As to the criticisms of the Bible, I am hoping you majored in some kind of science and ignored all accounts of history. We know what happened to all who opposed the Bible for many hundred years. Was that God’s will? If so you have a sick sick god.
for any one who wants to find out for themselves go to http://www.mormon.org